Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:06 am



Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
To Execute or not to Execute 
Author Message
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:31 pm
Posts: 15
Hello all,

So I have been playing with a horde of executioners and the ASF BSB in a 2250 tournament list. it's core is made up of 30 corsairs and 16-20 XBOW. with other stuff filling in, Harpies, hydra, witch elves or 2 hydra's etc.

In the games where my enemy has come straight across and met my horde the horde has walked through everything (of course). My last game though I lost as I was thrown off and made a few mistakes. He did tailor the list to play my list where mine is an all comers list for tournaments.

He played tomb kings. So he did not have a big block for me to destroy other than 2 blocks of 40 archers, not a lot of points per block and of course with hitting on 5's he had them behind everything. The 3 warshpinx he threw my way doesn't give me enough attaches to kill with the unit as I don't get enough attacks against it with the horde and still need 6's to wound. I didn't have witch elves in this list. I did kill 2 of the warsphinx but by the time I killed them I was down to 8 Exec with the BSB and my corsairs, my sorc blew herself up in turn 2. I realized i should have gone for everything that was coming at me vs trying to get to the archers / war machines in the back with my Exec.

So my question (s) are. what to do with the big horde of Exec if facing a MSU army? Do I get rid of the horde as the focus point of my list and make it dual purpose. Blackguard and corsairs with supporting hero's? This won't have as much punch with ONE unit but will make the corsairs fair much better than in previous list and my enemy won't just keep away from the big unit. The easier opponents will be beat regardless of if I have the exec or not and the good players will know better than to go toe to toe with it, this is where the question lies. thanks


Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:00 pm
Profile
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Lord of the Dragon Caves
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
Posts: 8372
Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
Post 
Tomb Kings present a unique challenge because of their ability to field lots of T8 monsters, against which Executioners are actually worse than spear elves. Because of this you can't really extrapolate to other armies that might try MSU.

Against most other armies, the executioners with ASF are points denial -- your opponent will have a tough time killing them, and even if they only catch 1or 2 harassing units, you should come out ahead. Against Tomb Kings, you really need magic to help you deal with the big constructs.

_________________
Truly These are the End Times ...


Last edited by Dyvim tvar on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:11 pm
Profile WWW
Shade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:15 pm
Posts: 120
Post 
I agree with Dyvim. (I believe he means T8 Constructs though * Ackk! I did mean T8 - fixed my post--DT *, as the Warsphinx and Necrosphinxes are prolly your biggest threats.) Tomb Kings are one of the only times Executioners have to roll a 6 to wound just like any other lower strength unit. That being the case, WEs are going to be your best unit against their huge Constructs, as 6's will auto-wound and they only have a 5+ armour save. That being said, Execs are still great against TKs as they will kill T4 Tomb Guard on a 2+ all day.

If you are going for an all-comers list, I don't think you will find a better unit out there than hoarded Execs with the ASF banner. Even against an MSU list, they are great. They can handle taking multiple charges at once fairly well; and as Dyvim said, even if you're opponent tries to avoid them, they should still kill enough to put you ahead in victory points.

I am in a huge experimentation phase with my Druchii right now, so I actually have been taking alot of lists without my Execs. I will have to say, though, no other unit as done better at earning back its points. Regardless of who you are playing (with the possible exception of HE) they are hard not to bring to the battle field.


Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:14 pm
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:31 pm
Posts: 15
Post 
Here is an example of one of our tournament points for win / loose


 Massacare – 20 Points – Win by 1350+ victory points.
 Major Victory – 16 Points – Win by 750 – 1349 victory points.
 Minor Victory – 13 Points – Win by 300 – 749 victory points.
 Draw – 10 Points – 0 – 299 victory points.
 Minor Loss – 7 Points – Lose by 300-749 victory points.
 Major Loss – 4 Points – Lose by 750-1349 victory points.
 Massacre Loss – 0 Points – Lose by 1350+


Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:26 pm
Profile
Trainee Warrior
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:21 am
Posts: 26
Post 
It really does sound like your opponent tailored his list for you. Tomb Kings is my other army, and generally Warsphinxs/Necrosphinxs are for those players who are either tailoring their lists against a specific opponent or just love the models. They die quickly to massed str 3 fire since they only have a 5+ save and 5 wounds. Also, of course Witch Elves (as has been mentioned) would just walk over them.

I don't think anything is wrong with your list. I think that it's just a case of him making an army just to fight you and it taking you by surprise.


Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:44 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
Post 
You can't start doubting your list after that game, he tailored against you for crying out loud.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:57 am
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Norway
Post 
I think the question still stands, even if he made a tailored list to take care of the executioner block. It's not as if everybody goes with horde blocks or knight deathstars all the time either... MSU isn't out of the question for quite many, and many of those lists are quite prepared to meet any kind of hordes. Personally I'd love to meet an executioner horde army, because a couple of firebreaths and/or crossbowshots on the unit and then a smaller unit of witch elves, would wreck the unit.

A wood elf player I know of, would pick such a unit down in maximum 2 rounds, a zombie army friend would have made the unit stagnate and do nothing except killing some zombies the whole game, and then you have the skaven who would use magic and skittering engineers to halt the unit and break it with several damage spells or the dreaded 13. A WoC friend of mine uses MSU, and he would just stay back while his hellcannon blasted into the unit for 3-4 rounds, while his sacrifical units (dogs and marauders) would block you along the way, and his almost invincible sorcers would use
treason of tzeentch, flickering fire and gateway to kill the unit even quicker than any hellcannon can.

I'm not saying "don't use such a block", however when you meet more flexible lists or horde killer lists, you might find yourself in a bit of trouble. Against other horde lists or knight lists, you should be perfectly fine...

I guess you could try cover your weaknesses... for instance, how can you get into archer units quickly so that your executioners won't get killed off so quickly (pegasus masters comes in mind), and how can you deal with high toughness (Witch elves). I'm not playing any kinds of horde, just against them, so I am not the one best suited to give any advice how to use it :)

_________________
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10


Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:44 am
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
Post 
Yea except your list doesn't just consist of the Executioner block. You have your own supporting units to complement them and to deal with such situations. The Executioner block is a threat, but it's not the only threat an opponent has to deal with for six whole turns.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:27 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Antwerp
Post 
Omnichron wrote:
A WoC friend of mine uses MSU, and he would just stay back while his hellcannon blasted into the unit for 3-4 rounds, while his sacrifical units (dogs and marauders) would block you along the way, and his almost invincible sorcers would use
treason of tzeentch, flickering fire and gateway to kill the unit even quicker than any hellcannon can.


Not defending the executioner horde or anything but its not an auto loss when you play against VC, WoC, ...

I've (only) fielded a horde of executioners against WoC and they did wonders.
When a WoC unit sits back and watches he probably has more then 1 Hellcanon and then your executioners are not the only thing you should worry about.
And you should ofc try to NOT get your executioners stuck with zombies (not saying that you have a choice all of the time)
Last week I did kill 12/18 warriors of chaos with 13 remaining Executioners and the +1 from the CoB. (ASF set-up ofc). Won the combat and ran the unit down with some Harpies in my next turn.
Just wanted to point out that even when reduced to a small size. They can still punch some serious face!


And hey, if they shoot your executioners. Some other chaff isn't getting shot at.


Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:32 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Norway
Post 
Persuader wrote:
Not defending the executioner horde or anything but its not an auto loss when you play against VC, WoC, ...


No, it isn't any auto loss of course, and I didnt want to make them sound entirely wasted (Although it kinda sounds like that when I re-read what I wrote). It's just that you don't need to tailor a list to take care of an executioner horde (Which was my point somewhere in there :) ).

There's many many ways to take care of it. And as mentioned by others, then the rest of your army should do the job. So I guess the answer is to not focus the list too much on the executioners.

_________________
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10


Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:50 pm
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:22 am
Posts: 459
Post 
This thread is all the more reason I never leave home (for the tourny scene that is) with out my exe axe.

There are more and more large tough targets out there theses days. Being st6 just isnt what it use to be. Use to be that st6 would kill all and leave you pretty. But with 8th and this influx of new monsters and who knows whats that are t7 to t8. You need a way to kill them that does not leave you hoping for 6's. Until the next book when exe axe becomes HKB, it remains the answer to just about every problem you will ever face in a tourney scene.

Having said that do not over think what I said and assume it will win all your games auto for you. You must be clever with it, you must never assume that throwing it at the problem will fix said problem. Be wary of things that have a chance to survive and punch you back, after all when all is said and done your a squish elf.

We survive and win because we do 2 things and do them well. We hit first and we hit harder. If you cant shatter what you hit in one shot then be ready to reap the payback.

_________________
Flyers for the win in 8th.

DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

The League of Extraordinary Druchii


Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:22 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
Post 
Yea I know right? Back then before all the new 8th ed books came out, my S7 Dreadlord layed waste to every monster out there. I was never afraid of my arch-nemesis anymore, T6 thunderstomping multi wound monsters of doom. Now...S7 is just not enough. I now love and never leave home without my Exec Axe Lord.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:41 am
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Norway
Post 
Having used it in the shadestars I've played with lately, and utterly wiped a TK list from the table that had 4 sphinxes... I must agree! Executioners axe is awesome!

Purple sun against TK is too by the way :D

_________________
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10


Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:46 am
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
Post 
yea but that's lame and unreliable. Exec Axe will definitely always work, P.Sun might fail to cast, might get dispelled, might get scrolled, might fall short.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:57 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Norway
Post 
Meteor wrote:
yea but that's lame and unreliable. Exec Axe will definitely always work, P.Sun might fail to cast, might get dispelled, might get scrolled, might fall short.


If it fails once, try again! :D

I think I failed twice before I finally got it through.

_________________
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10


Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:26 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:05 am
Posts: 190
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post 
How do you protect your ex-axe lord from being mashed into a thin red paste before he gets to strike? Back in the days of 4th ed the ex-axe/black amulet lord was de rigeur, but now at 80 pts if you've got the axe you don't have the points left for a decent ward and relying on armour saves against these large monsters we're discussing is a massive risk.

_________________
A missive from the desk of Kylekin, Prince of Nhaeroth, Land of the Setting Sun

8th ed stats (W/L/D)
DE: 1/0/0
DoC: 2/1/0
Empire: 0/1/0
WoC: 0/1/0


Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:46 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Norway
Post 
You put the ASF banner with the unit he's in, which means you strike with normal initiative. Also, with blood armor and potion of speed, you gain init 10, so only other ASF units can strike before you, and you will gain 1+ armor rather quickly :)

_________________
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10


Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:39 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
Post 
Yup, mine has Blood Armour, Exec Axe and a cheap 5pt Potion of Speed to boost him to I10. His only weakness is ASF, and other I10 killers.

I usually put him with a unit of BG because they can carry the ASF banner, that way I don't need to go out of my way to get a Master to carry the ASF banner for me. The ASF banner will last longer with a unit of BG compared to the Master, plus they provide other bonuses like stubborn and SCR.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:45 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 8:56 am
Posts: 423
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Post 
I have had pretty good success with a BG oriented Executioners Axe list.

The link can be seen below in my sig, where you can also find 4 BRs along with the experiences i had using the army.

In the current metagame here in DK where Ogres and other Monstrous Infantry dominate, the Executioners Axe is an interesting option.

_________________
Interesting threads from the past:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:


Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:50 am
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
Posts: 1294
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Post 
Wouldnt a CoK unit with Hag Graef and the Axe be quite nice? The knights benefit from rerorolling to-hit (which the BG already have) and putting your DL on a CO gives him a nice mundane 2+ AS without spending points from magic allowance


Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:18 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Norway
Post 
Executioners axe is "On foot only" so no way to get both Execs axe and a cold one.

_________________
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10


Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:45 pm
Profile
Beastmaster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:27 am
Posts: 302
Location: Australia
Post 
My question is what Magic were you using?

Shadow Mind Razor & Pit of Shades for the Sphinxes
Death Purple Sun will wreck the TK's army

The other Magic Lores are less effective vs. TK's
Fire Flaming Sword on Crossbows or unit fighting Sphinxes
Metal Enchanted Blades on your Crossbows,

Dark Magic almost useless vs. Sphinxes

Either way focus your Crossbows onto the Sphinxes to get the odd wound or 2 before they reach combat.

Also try re directing the sphinxes with Harpies etc..

Your list seems fine though infantry heavy, I personally like small units of Cold One Knights to run into the Monsters and prevent the Thunder Stomps, the high armour save also means they can stick around a bit longer..

The Relic Sword always wounds on a 5+ can be useful vs. high toughness monsters.

If you can get into the flank of a sphinx with the Executioners or Corsairs the high number of attacks will eventually kill the monster.


If facing MSU lists use Magic and shooting to get rid of pesky re-directors the opponent will have.

Use your own re-directors to chase off the opponents chaff, as well as your big blocks to face off the most threatening units.

_________________
Dark Elf Battles

Win/Draw/Loss
10 : 1 : 4 7th Ed Codex


Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:35 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
Posts: 1294
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Post 
Omnichron wrote:
Executioners axe is "On foot only" so no way to get both Execs axe and a cold one.


Ah, you're right! How come Army Builder doesn't mention that at all? :P


Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:25 pm
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Posts: 890
Location: Kittenmarsh
Post 
Wych Elves vs either Sphinx, not Execs

_________________
Oderint dum Metuant.


Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:04 am
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 24 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software