How WILL you run your BG, execs, witches and shades in 8th?
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How WILL you run your BG, execs, witches and shades in 8th?
I know....wait until its released...however, the way rumors are going it seems flanking units need 2 ranks to remove rank bonus and infantry blocks are going to get deeper. The "free" wheeling within range also plays a huge factor as your file line wont interfere with measuring. I can also see games being bumped to the 3000pt mark to adjust to the new rules.
So I am thinking Special infantry units will be bumped up to 6x3 and and flankers 6x2 mabey even up to 15 models to allow for casulties. My spear blocks may bump up to 5x5 or even 6x4. allegedly shades are going to have formation now so with the 1/2" spacing they may be best used 5x2.
Thoughts?
So I am thinking Special infantry units will be bumped up to 6x3 and and flankers 6x2 mabey even up to 15 models to allow for casulties. My spear blocks may bump up to 5x5 or even 6x4. allegedly shades are going to have formation now so with the 1/2" spacing they may be best used 5x2.
Thoughts?
Too Cold
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- Masterofdarkness
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I don't' think it will matter all that much, since every thing points towards the returning of herohammer.
Until the rules come out, it's hard to say, if I need 2 full ranks, then yes most of my unit's are going to need a few more models. If I don't then there is nothing that will force me to take huge unit's.
But in the end of things, it's the heroes that will matter. (50+ magic items), and 50% point towards hero's with no limitation to their number, that call's for massive combos.
But when it comes out well see.
Until the rules come out, it's hard to say, if I need 2 full ranks, then yes most of my unit's are going to need a few more models. If I don't then there is nothing that will force me to take huge unit's.
But in the end of things, it's the heroes that will matter. (50+ magic items), and 50% point towards hero's with no limitation to their number, that call's for massive combos.
But when it comes out well see.
- Ebonyphoenix
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I doubt it will be "herohammer" since the "step up" rule will mean the hero is not exempt from attacks anymore. Plus, the initiative order rumor means that characters with Great Weapons and/or anything less than intiative 5 is going to get stabbed before it gets to swing at us. Black Orc hero versus Executioners choosing to use handweapons should be pretty funny. He charges, we swing with 6 attacks and only need 1 six.
I agree that GW is probably going to err and create a new set of despicable combos, but as KillerK said, we'll have to wait and see once the rumors are either concrete or that we have the book in our eager little hands.
However, as far as units I'm currently thinking on running a unit of 20 blackguard 2x10 to go horde hunting. Probably have a unit or two of CoKs beside them for flank support to remove opponents stubborn in ranks option. I can always form the BG into a ranked unit of 7 by whatever if my opponent didn't bring a horde unit of his own. BG plus cauldron should be almost as good as they are now.
As far as shades, the formation is too nebulous a rumor. I'm sure something is happening, and if it is exactly as rumored I may still field them in units of 5 but in a 3x2 formation to limit their footmark on the table. They should have no problem killing fast cav and warmachines, but will probably never use Great Weapons again.
I agree that GW is probably going to err and create a new set of despicable combos, but as KillerK said, we'll have to wait and see once the rumors are either concrete or that we have the book in our eager little hands.
However, as far as units I'm currently thinking on running a unit of 20 blackguard 2x10 to go horde hunting. Probably have a unit or two of CoKs beside them for flank support to remove opponents stubborn in ranks option. I can always form the BG into a ranked unit of 7 by whatever if my opponent didn't bring a horde unit of his own. BG plus cauldron should be almost as good as they are now.
As far as shades, the formation is too nebulous a rumor. I'm sure something is happening, and if it is exactly as rumored I may still field them in units of 5 but in a 3x2 formation to limit their footmark on the table. They should have no problem killing fast cav and warmachines, but will probably never use Great Weapons again.
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- Tethlis
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Executioners: Either 21 in a 7x3, or 24 in a 6x4 formation. Having lots of bodies will be crucial, since we'll be hitting back. Having deep ranks to help survive incoming attacks and negate some of the enemy static combat resolution will be great.
Black Guard: Max size, for the same reasons as Executioners.
Black Guard: Max size, for the same reasons as Executioners.
I'm pretty much on the same page as Tethlis with this. I've even tinkered with the idea of 28 execs since they die in droves, but with stubborn from the CoB they'll be sticking around and causing a lot of hurt. I would probably run BG at 20 with a character and run them 7*3. I have been using 14 for both units in 7th, but with the changes I think it would be nice to have the extra bodies. The only downside to the 7 wide frontage is typically a loss in manueverability, but if the rumours are true, then we won't have to worry about the wider frontage being cumbersome.
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At this stage, I'm planning on 20 executioners and either 18 or 20 witches. I don't think I'll bother with black guard in 8th; Both my khainites will be stubborn and the rumour is autobreak will be gone. With striking in I order and stepping up, the need for the ASF banner (and hence BG) will be greatly diminished. With those khainites being stubborn, we have the luxury of deploying them wider (in range of the cauldron) to maximise on attacks.
At this stage I'm thinking I will not have to make too many adjustments to fit the extra block of infantry in. I'll save points from not needing an assassin or a second sorceress to protect me from spammed vanhels(let tthem charge me! I won't be going anywhere fast. )
I'm also thinking of bringing a big block of warriors/corsairs and hopefully knights. Dreadlord on foot, cauldron and lvl2 with the tome of furion should be enough characters. About 550pts.
At this stage I'm thinking I will not have to make too many adjustments to fit the extra block of infantry in. I'll save points from not needing an assassin or a second sorceress to protect me from spammed vanhels(let tthem charge me! I won't be going anywhere fast. )
I'm also thinking of bringing a big block of warriors/corsairs and hopefully knights. Dreadlord on foot, cauldron and lvl2 with the tome of furion should be enough characters. About 550pts.
- Dumbledore
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BG may still have a role to play with their I6. Banner of murder BG will be even nicer. There are many armies that have the same I as us. WoC, for example are largely I5 and have a fair chance at beating us in cc, even if they are so expensive.
I'm not doubting that execs are likely to get a big boost. One thing I don't know, though, will their GWs still make them strike last?
I'm not doubting that execs are likely to get a big boost. One thing I don't know, though, will their GWs still make them strike last?
- Sulla
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Dumbledore wrote:BG may still have a role to play with their I6. Banner of murder BG will be even nicer. There are many armies that have the same I as us. WoC, for example are largely I5 and have a fair chance at beating us in cc, even if they are so expensive.
I'm not doubting that execs are likely to get a big boost. One thing I don't know, though, will their GWs still make them strike last?
All rumours point to great weapons always striking last, even with ASF. (HE have an exception to this written into their armybook though).
As to BG, yes, they will still be very good in 8th, but the gap between them and the khainite specials will not be so great anymore, with witches having more attacks, being able to restrain frenzy and having the same I value, and executioners having such high killing potential in the rumoured rules. If you are taking a cauldron (and you probably should be in 8th, since it will make a far bigger difference to combat than any hero), the khainites are probably on a par with BG for a given points value.
- Tethlis
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With their strong Initiative, Witch Elves and Black Guard will both love the Banner of Murder.
I think that being able to re-roll over multiple rounds of combat is a critical strength for Black Guard in 8th edition. Combats will almost definitely last multiple rounds, and being able to swing with consistency in each round will be a strong advantage.
I think that being able to re-roll over multiple rounds of combat is a critical strength for Black Guard in 8th edition. Combats will almost definitely last multiple rounds, and being able to swing with consistency in each round will be a strong advantage.
- Dalamar
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I will keep my BG small-ish, 14 models as they are now seems about right, they will be there to dish out attacks while big blocks of warriors/corsairs/witch elves (anything at 10 or less points per model) will be holding up the enemy. Executioners will form an anit-armor strike force and we'll see about knights in the new rank breaking rules.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
That´s a first turn loss. Artillery is more plentiful and accurate. There´ll be a tough balance in getting use of Step up and being a point give away vs. gunlines. In any case, such a point sink is a self mutilation waiting to happen.DirtyG wrote:I will run a unit of 30-35 Executioners 10x3. 31 attacks with Greatweapons. Hag BSB with ASF inside unit, Hag with Cauldron backing it with buffs.
- Dalamar
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Bear in mind that artillery isn't getting any more accurate in hands of experienced gunners...
My regular artillery opponents can guess their ranges exactly where they want them so there won't be any difference.
My regular artillery opponents can guess their ranges exactly where they want them so there won't be any difference.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
There will, if the models half-covered by the template become auto-hit rahter than 50%.Dalamar wrote:My regular artillery opponents can guess their ranges exactly where they want them so there won't be any difference.
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- Lord kalhadron
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- Tethlis
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Oh no! Artillery! Oh no!
So Dwarves, greenskins, Tomb Kings, Empire, Brets, and any Warriors player who takes a Hellcannon will get a slight buff, though they'll be spending Special/Rare choices on artillery instead of more regiments.
Sounds like the older armybooks are getting a nice bonus, since Skaven auto-hit on partials anyway. Maybe this will help balace out the newer armybooks, who are strangely lacking in guess-range artillery compared to the other ones.
I'll still be fielding elite elven infantry, whether there's better artillery or not.
So Dwarves, greenskins, Tomb Kings, Empire, Brets, and any Warriors player who takes a Hellcannon will get a slight buff, though they'll be spending Special/Rare choices on artillery instead of more regiments.
Sounds like the older armybooks are getting a nice bonus, since Skaven auto-hit on partials anyway. Maybe this will help balace out the newer armybooks, who are strangely lacking in guess-range artillery compared to the other ones.
I'll still be fielding elite elven infantry, whether there's better artillery or not.
I wouldn't worry too much about artillery, I played a game of rumourhammer just for s***'s and giggles with a buddy today, and dark riders can potentially if the free move rumour is true, get in a nice position to charge artillery very early on. I know mine flew across the board real quick.
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The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
Thanks to the stepping up rule and casualties being pulled from the back, I think we need to limit the damage we're going to take by offering smaller frontages. Running anything ten-wide as an elf seems like suicide to me.
Black Guard - will not be the ASF combat monsters they once were. They'll now kill a lot but they'll take a beating in return. And as they're limited in numbers, they'll simply lose to a war of attrition. Which means they're now worth the 13 points we pay for them (and that's a good thing!).
Executioners - these fine folks just went from "just not as good as all the other special choices" to "the worst elven infantry in Warhammer". Since you'll never see another Assassin or Death Hag on the table ever again, strike-last elves suck.
Shades - since they'll never carry Great Weapons again, they're back to the role of irritating the enemy with crossbow fire and hunting in the back fields.
One the plus side, Witch Elves should come back into fashion!
Black Guard - will not be the ASF combat monsters they once were. They'll now kill a lot but they'll take a beating in return. And as they're limited in numbers, they'll simply lose to a war of attrition. Which means they're now worth the 13 points we pay for them (and that's a good thing!).
Executioners - these fine folks just went from "just not as good as all the other special choices" to "the worst elven infantry in Warhammer". Since you'll never see another Assassin or Death Hag on the table ever again, strike-last elves suck.
Shades - since they'll never carry Great Weapons again, they're back to the role of irritating the enemy with crossbow fire and hunting in the back fields.
One the plus side, Witch Elves should come back into fashion!