8th edition - did DE get stronger or weaker?

[Auere]

I have always been collecting Dark Elf models since I was a little child, but it was only a year ago, that I resumed the hobby and started playing games.

Since then I have managed to play 27 games during the 7th edition, and really I am starting to dislike dark elves. I absolutely love the models and the fluff, but the armylist was simply to strong in 7th edition. My 27 games resulted in: 20 massacres, 2 solid victories, 1 minor victory and 4 draws - how fun is that? I have yet to loose a game with my Dark Elves.



So what are we looking at in 8th edition? Are the Dark Elves going to be harder to play with? Can I count on more resistance, more tactical and exiting games or just another streak of massacres against the few who still couragously shows up for a match?

In the last case, I think I might be selling my dark elves on ebay and starting all over with an army that requires a little more tactical determination. I simply refuse to intentionally play bad or make weak lists with my dark elves in order to keep the games fun for my friends. I would rather play a bad army well than a super army bad!

[Calisson]

Are the Dark Elves going to be harder to play with?
=> yes. The previously essential agile troops are a little bit less useful. The charging unit receiving no retaliation will not happen anymore.

Can I count on more resistance,
=> yes: with rear ranks filling in the losses, there will be retaliation to your attacks.
The steadfast rule means that many vanquished units will not leave.

more tactical and exiting games
=> not necessarily. 8th edition requires less finess tactics (and allows less exploitation of rule loopholes).

or just another streak of massacres against the few who still couragously shows up for a match?
=> your victory count shows that your usual opponents are not a great match for you. DE were strong, but could be beaten by a competent general with an optimized army list, or of the DE made mistakes.
Obviously your opponents were either less competent or had less optimized armies than you, and you made little mistakes.
It this does not change, you are likely to keep winning as before.
However, changing armies would not change the results.

[Tethlis]

I find that W/L/D ratio isn't always a good reflection of the strength of an army. If your environment has a lot of new players, or players who like to use balanced lists, or a large percentage of older armybooks, or any number of reasons can contribute just as much to a good W/L/D ratio as a powerful army can.

That being said, the fact that an opponent will always be able to make return attacks really hurts Elves. I still think we will heavily depend on picking fights and stacking odds in our favor with combined charges, so that element of our playstyle has carried from 7th edition to 8th edition. However, our use of "special forces" and fragile, mobile units to dictate our opponent's playstyle is greatly reduced. Spearmen and crossbows replace Harpies and Dark Riders as standard choices for our force, so we gain a whole new type of playstyle with 8th eidtion.

[Masterofdarkness]

Will DE be weaker who knows, will they be stronger, who can say yet. Will they need to play differently. HELL YES

[Kaleth eissplitter]

Honestly: If you like the models, then I wouldn't recommend to sell everything and start over!

I played two games with 8th edition yet, the first was against high elves (which I surprisingly won) and the second was against Orcs and Goblins (which I lost).

I got the impression, that dark elves are still a very strong army with a lot of tactical potential and a bag full of dirty tricks. But it is not as easy for us to dictate the opponent our playstyle.

For all I can say is:

Core Units like corsairs and spearmen are great when fielded as hordes and supported with a hero or an assassin.

Shooting is still devastating against low T troops. (Ask those high elves!)

Dark lore is total fun since it is much easier now to cast high level spells like Black horror or soul stealer with a level 2 mage.

Shades are still great in shooting but I won't recommend them in close combat. Luckily this will hopefully set an end for this awful shade stars.

Dark rides are good for hunting warmachines.

The hydra seems less underprized now since she can only breathe once per game.

[Minsc]

Dark Elves got weaker, but we're still strong.
Although I'd say we lost our rank amongst "tier" 1 and so did VC, however this mostly due to other armies getting better.

Thanks to PoD we can still have one of the most brutal magic phases in WFB.

[Thanee]

Since then I have managed to play 27 games during the 7th edition, and really I am starting to dislike dark elves. I absolutely love the models and the fluff, but the armylist was simply to strong in 7th edition. My 27 games resulted in: 20 massacres, 2 solid victories, 1 minor victory and 4 draws - how fun is that? I have yet to loose a game with my Dark Elves.

I cannot yet answer your actual question, but I have a question about your experiences.

Did you try to swap armies with one of your friends for a match (i.e. have them play your Dark Elves and you play their army)?

That is often a good way to see, what is more important for the victory... the army or the general behind it.

While DE was a very strong army in 7th, it was still quite possible to lose against many other armies. If you didn't lose a single game in 27 matches, chances are good, that you are a very good player and/or your opponents are not.

I also never lose a game against weak opponents, they simply cannot have that much luck. But against strong players matches are often much tighter.

So, what do I want to say... I'm not sure your "problem" is with the army choice, but maybe the play experience/tactical ability of your friends?

Bye
Thanee

[Vandal delle 3v]

even though i played only a couple of games since 8th is out, i have the feeling DE still kick ass, especially when setting up an army of infantry in horde mode (witches above all, or, with great surprise, spears with the support of a cauldron)

[Dahag]

The hydra seems less underprized now since she can only breathe once per game.

can you please tell me, where you got this from? It's the first time I hear this and I can't find it in the latest FAQ.

[Killerk]

BRB - All breath weapon's, are one use only

[C_freman]

Regarding the hydra, the fact that the handlers are simply unkillable now, that the breath is way more powerful than before, and the new Thunderstomp rule, I think it gained more than it lost.

[Kaleth eissplitter]

Well that is true. But since all monsters get the thunderstomp... it's kind of even...
I still think the hydra is a powerhouse. She took an attack of 11 Silverhelmets and BSB and hold them for 2 turns... (well lucky rolling for breaktest but hey what is a battle standart bearer for?)

[Tethlis]

The flip side for the Hydra is that his low Initiative and the reworking of Flaming Attacks/Regeneration makes him more vulnerable than ever. Yes, there will be circumstances where he rampages through a unit or two without trying, but there will also be circumstances where a prepared opponent destroys it with Pit of Shades/Purple Sun/Pendulum or tags it with a Flaming Attack in close combat and a unit hacks it down before it has a chance to respond with its low Initiative. The same is very true for the dragon; Breath Weapon and Thunderstomp add killing power, low Initiative adds vulnerability. The Hydra and HPA are dangerous enough that you want to be able to bring them down quickly, which is why I never leave home without the Banner of Eternal Flame and Manbane/Rending Stars.

[Auere]

Did you try to swap armies with one of your friends for a match (i.e. have them play your Dark Elves and you play their army)?

We do not swap armies, although I have sometimes suggested we could. I have actually only played one game with another faction than dark elves. It was with bretonnia against O&G and I lost by a massacre :-). (Which only proved my opponents claims on dark elves right...)

So, what do I want to say... I'm not sure your "problem" is with the army choice, but maybe the play experience/tactical ability of your friends?

I am proberbly a better tactician than my opponents, but not by that much. I seldenly make big mistakes or eye-measure wrong and I am pretty good with deployment. But DE is just such a strong list - how can you go wrong? The matchups always seem favorable for me: If he puts down heavy cavalry I put Dark Riders, if he puts infantry I put crossbows and black guard, if he puts warmaschines I put harpies. If he puts down something I really need to kill I put war hydra. It is not rocket science - what is he to do? It is pretty hard to find favorable matchups against a list that has everything. The only kind of list that continually gives me a bit of a headache with dark elves is a gunline.


I really really hope that you are right, that Dark Elves are going to be nerfed slightly with the new ruleset. Although I must admid that from what I have heard, DE is really the only one from the "big three" who is not taking a serious hit.

Dark Riders, harpies, CoKs and black guard may be going down a bit, but with Chariots, rxbs, spearmen and executioners getting a big boost it is proberbly going to be around even in my mind.

Lets see... I have yet to fully read the new ruleset.

[Tzelok]

One option that I am trying out is a themed list with no tailoring.

What I am talking about is essentially a take on the khainite theme (manticore lord, COB, witch elves and execs supported by spears and xbows) against EVERYONE. No specialized items/unit combos. Just a list that uses the "weaker" units in our army.

I know you said you would rather not play a list that is "self-nerfed", but I challenge you to see it as "different playing style".

Tonight I will be trying this for the first time against my high elf playing friend (whom I usually massacre, but he is the only one in my gaming group that still has fun rather than moping about how great DE are). This list is not the best match up against HE by any means, but I much like yourself have become tired of almost always winning and hearing the whining about how its only because of how great DE are.

I'll let you know how it goes (both the battle result and if it was enjoyable).

[Methuselah]

Regarding the hydra, the fact that the handlers are simply unkillable now, that the breath is way more powerful than before, and the new Thunderstomp rule, I think it gained more than it lost.

Not so fast. It also lost the ability to break ranks on the flank, and most opponents are going to be streadfast against it, so good luck with that! Even a weaker unit like Skaven slaves can hold up a hydra or even kill it.

[Sulla]

[. But DE is just such a strong list - how can you go wrong? The matchups always seem favorable for me: If he puts down heavy cavalry I put Dark Riders, if he puts infantry I put crossbows and black guard, if he puts warmaschines I put harpies. If he puts down something I really need to kill I put war hydra. It is not rocket science - what is he to do? .

...And you don't see what you were doing? You were deliberately only taking the cream of the DE list. Where are the executioners or witch elves? Where are the manticores or corsair blocks? You could easily have weakened your list to make for more even games but you chose not to (going by your solutions to problems). Anyone can play the no-brainer DE list, or the bunker spam regen VC, or the bloodthirster/fleshhound/fdouble flamer daemon list. The challenge is to find the balance between power units, fun/pretty units and playability.

Regardless of that, DE got much weaker in this edition if those are the units you plan on taking. Fleers will get caught much more easily, the 5-10 casualties your black guard do won't prevent them suffer attacks in return, your crossbowmen will fire a lot more, but do a lot less because there are less high value targets and more big infantry blocks. Your hydra will hit hard, but only after suffering a couple of wounds due to it's low initiative and the easy access to flaming attacks.

In short, 8th edition has eliminated most of the easy wins you had solely from army selection in 7th.

[Lord tsunami]

i agree. we got weaker, but we are definitely not weak.

[Comrade igor]

We definitely did not get weaker. We are still at the top of the pile.

[Minsc]

We definitely did not get weaker. We are still at the top of the pile.

Please elaborate.

[Babnik]

Army got weaker ONLY for those who were used to play deathstar and other easy-lazy combo (BG with ASF, multiple assassins, dual hydra, full magic, etc...).

I played with 8th Ed, a unit witch elves against bestigors and minotaurs under steroids and they almost slaughtered them! And our beloved bikini wearing Khaine's maid were not seen often on 7th Ed.

Like for other armies, we are not weaker, just different (except maybe daemons, they fortunately got weaker...

[Markusswe]

I would say Dark Elves got a little bit weaker. Some primary things:

Where we lost:
- Some of our units became a lot worse because of CC-rules like executioners (because of initiative rule) & witch elves (because of stepping up rule).
- Marchblock is much harder which makes a shooting/magic + marchblocking strategy less viable. And, this was a very good DE-strategy (still is, but not as strong).
- Against all infantry with less than 5 move our army lost an earlier advantage to be the one charging enemy infantry (lost this because of random chargedistance).
- RoH not as good because misscast doesn't dispel spells anymore.

Where we gained:
- Magic phase because of Sac Dagger & PoD.

So, if only considering our army it got a little worse. However, if also comparing it to other armies I think we lost our tier1 status as someone mentioned.

A bunch of armies that gained from 8th include those...
- with low move and/or hard hitting infantry like WoC, Ogres, Beasts (with less worries not getting to combat with new marchblockrules).
- with guess range wpns like WoC (str5 stonethrower), Dwarves, Empire.
- that benefit from the new magic rules because of items/gifts like WoC (change a non-1 dice, infernal puppet), HE (book of hoeth), Liz (slann extra dice for every spell).
- that earlier had problems with fear/terror and can adjust armycomposition Orcs (general ld not as important), WoC (no more slanesh mark), Empire (autoflee from fear less problematic).

Of course, much more can be added but my main point is that DE got worse mostly because of how other armies got better.

[Minsc]

I apologize in advance if I sound like a whiner. I do think DE are still powerful, but when someone say's that they're buffed in 8th Ed I just get so annoyed I can't shut up, so I'm gonna make a summarize as well:

In General:
We lost hatred on our Dragons, Manticores, characterbought cold ones and dark steeds, dark pegai.
It's debatable if we still have hatred on our CoK's CO's and Dark Riders DS's.
M5 means less now, although our I finally matters, so I'm gonna say they counter eachother out - no change.

We're an elven army with quite expensive fragile T3 troops with low/no armoursave. Like all elven armies along with WE and HE, we lost more than we gained from stepping up and remove-from-the-rear since even if we kill 10 enemy troops, they will still get to hit us - this is a big nerf to our infantry.
We gained supporting attacks as well, but overall this is a nerf to elven armies, DE included.

Items:
+
Beastmasters Scourge/Whip of Agony got buffed.
Sac. Dagger is as powerful as ever, but it will affect 8th Ed. magicphases more than it would in 7th Ed.
-
Ring of Hotek got nerfed out of oblivion. It's actually worse than the 6th Ed. one now.
Pendant of Khaeleth is worse due to nearly all damage spells not having a strenght value anymore.
Pendant + Armour of Eternal Servitude is dead.
Black Staff is pretty much a pointsink now.

Shooting: Neutral, no big change since 7th Ed.

Magic: Our magicphase was brutal in 7th Ed, and will still be brutal in 8th Ed. Slight buff because most armies can't be that brutal.

Units:

Dreadlords/Masters. Neutral, no big change. Might suffer from more incomming attacks, but we got the armour to withstand most of it.

Sorcererss'. Druchii sorcery got slightly shafted but it's still usefull. Thanks to some of our magic item's we can have one of the most brutal magicphases in wfb atm, but that's due to the item's beeing good, not due to the sorcerer's - so I'm gonna say they didn't really gain or loose anything.

Death Hags. T3 no save expensive hero? Yeah, I will take one for my CoB, but I'll never have one in a unit of Executioners/Witch Elves, because she will die as soon as she hits combat. No more ASFbanner for Exec's or Witch Elves.

Assassins. Again, T3, no save expensive character. He got really gimped in close combat, and I can only imagine that you take him either because you love the modell/fluff/using one, or for the Manbane/Rendingstar combo - wich still works, altough it got nerfed abit.

Spears. Neutral, got the same rules all infantry got.

RxB's. Got better due to shooting in 2 ranks + shooting is better in general.

Corsairs(adhw). slightly worse in the sense that they 'loose' 1 attack in the 2nd rank. Still overpriced.

Corsairs(rhb). Slightly better due to shooting in 2 ranks.

Dark Riders. Gained Vanguard - lost pretty much the main reason for taking them (redirecting, flanking, etc.), so worse of.

Harpies. Alot worse, firstly due to Skirmisher changes and second for flyer changes. Also lost the ability to redirect/marchblock and crossfire properly. Still useable for annoyances and warmachine hunting, but worse of than they were last ed.

Witch Elves. Actually gained something. Supporting attacks will hurt them by a stupid amound, but frenzy got better and I6 is really great now. They are slightly better of.

Executioners. T3 elves in heavy armour with ASL? They we're quite bad in 7th Ed. (although I did use them), and they're even worse in 8th Ed. I can't see them having any place in a competitive list.

Shades: Scout got better, Skirmish got worse and a GW is suicide on a 18pts modell without a save. Shades are still very useable with adhw, but overall they got nerfed.

Cold One Chariot. It got better, simply put.

Cold One Knights. They are still good, however with the debatable loss on hatred for the mounts, and the nerf's affecting all Heavy Cav. in the game, they are worse of now than in last ed.

Black Guard. Still very good, still a nobrainer in a competetive list - however, as with all elven infantry, they will suffer from supporting attacks and such. Better of? Not really. Worse of? Yeah, slightly.

RBT's. I didn't like them in 7th Ed, and found them to be overpriced. Now in 8th Ed. they're even worse. Way worse of.

Hydra. I'm torn here, but I'm gonna say it's worse of now.
Yes, it's breath template is better and can be used in combat for extra oompff, but only once, and it gained thunderstomp (but so did all monsters), and the handlers are pretty much unkillable. However, it can no longer break ranks, it can no longer keep breathing on troops, it can no longer reliably break things alone since almost everything it fights will be steadfast, and Regen got alot worse. So yeah, it got buffed in some areas, but nerfed in others, and the nerfs overshadow the buffs.

So that's it basicly. Some buffs but way more (and harder) nerfs.
Now you tell me with a straight honest face that Dark Elves got better in 8th Ed. and I'll try not to laugh or start crying. :rolleyes:
*Goes away while waiting for the 'cry me a river' replies.*

[Greenman]

I apologize in advance if I sound like a whiner. I do think DE are still powerful, but when someone say's that they're buffed in 8th Ed I just get so annoyed I can't shut up, so I'm gonna make a summarize as well:

In General:
We lost hatred on our Dragons, Manticores, characterbought cold ones and dark steeds, dark pegai.
It's debatable if we still have hatred on our CoK's CO's and Dark Riders DS's.
M5 means less now, although our I finally matters, so I'm gonna say they counter eachother out - no change.

We're an elven army with quite expensive fragile T3 troops with low/no armoursave. Like all elven armies along with WE and HE, we lost more than we gained from stepping up and remove-from-the-rear since even if we kill 10 enemy troops, they will still get to hit us - this is a big nerf to our infantry.
We gained supporting attacks as well, but overall this is a nerf to elven armies, DE included.

Items:
+
Beastmasters Scourge/Whip of Agony got buffed.
Sac. Dagger is as powerful as ever, but it will affect 8th Ed. magicphases more than it would in 7th Ed.
-
Ring of Hotek got nerfed out of oblivion. It's actually worse than the 6th Ed. one now.
Pendant of Khaeleth is worse due to nearly all damage spells not having a strenght value anymore.
Pendant + Armour of Eternal Servitude is dead.
Black Staff is pretty much a pointsink now.

Shooting: Neutral, no big change since 7th Ed.

Magic: Our magicphase was brutal in 7th Ed, and will still be brutal in 8th Ed. Slight buff because most armies can't be that brutal.

Units:

Dreadlords/Masters. Neutral, no big change. Might suffer from more incomming attacks, but we got the armour to withstand most of it.

Sorcererss'. Druchii sorcery got slightly shafted but it's still usefull. Thanks to some of our magic item's we can have one of the most brutal magicphases in wfb atm, but that's due to the item's beeing good, not due to the sorcerer's - so I'm gonna say they didn't really gain or loose anything.

Death Hags. T3 no save expensive hero? Yeah, I will take one for my CoB, but I'll never have one in a unit of Executioners/Witch Elves, because she will die as soon as she hits combat. No more ASFbanner for Exec's or Witch Elves.

Assassins. Again, T3, no save expensive character. He got really gimped in close combat, and I can only imagine that you take him either because you love the modell/fluff/using one, or for the Manbane/Rendingstar combo - wich still works, altough it got nerfed abit.

Spears. Neutral, got the same rules all infantry got.

RxB's. Got better due to shooting in 2 ranks + shooting is better in general.

Corsairs(adhw). slightly worse in the sense that they 'loose' 1 attack in the 2nd rank. Still overpriced.

Corsairs(rhb). Slightly better due to shooting in 2 ranks.

Dark Riders. Gained Vanguard - lost pretty much the main reason for taking them (redirecting, flanking, etc.), so worse of.

Harpies. Alot worse, firstly due to Skirmisher changes and second for flyer changes. Also lost the ability to redirect/marchblock and crossfire properly. Still useable for annoyances and warmachine hunting, but worse of than they were last ed.

Witch Elves. Actually gained something. Supporting attacks will hurt them by a stupid amound, but frenzy got better and I6 is really great now. They are slightly better of.

Executioners. T3 elves in heavy armour with ASL? They we're quite bad in 7th Ed. (although I did use them), and they're even worse in 8th Ed. I can't see them having any place in a competitive list.

Shades: Scout got better, Skirmish got worse and a GW is suicide on a 18pts modell without a save. Shades are still very useable with adhw, but overall they got nerfed.

Cold One Chariot. It got better, simply put.

Cold One Knights. They are still good, however with the debatable loss on hatred for the mounts, and the nerf's affecting all Heavy Cav. in the game, they are worse of now than in last ed.

Black Guard. Still very good, still a nobrainer in a competetive list - however, as with all elven infantry, they will suffer from supporting attacks and such. Better of? Not really. Worse of? Yeah, slightly.

RBT's. I didn't like them in 7th Ed, and found them to be overpriced. Now in 8th Ed. they're even worse. Way worse of.

Hydra. I'm torn here, but I'm gonna say it's worse of now.
Yes, it's breath template is better and can be used in combat for extra oompff, but only once, and it gained thunderstomp (but so did all monsters), and the handlers are pretty much unkillable. However, it can no longer break ranks, it can no longer keep breathing on troops, it can no longer reliably break things alone since almost everything it fights will be steadfast, and Regen got alot worse. So yeah, it got buffed in some areas, but nerfed in others, and the nerfs overshadow the buffs.

So that's it basicly. Some buffs but way more (and harder) nerfs.
Now you tell me with a straight honest face that Dark Elves got better in 8th Ed. and I'll try not to laugh or start crying. :rolleyes:
*Goes away while waiting for the 'cry me a river' replies.*

no i wont say you are just crying tho

but it seems you didnt play much games up to now and just rely on theorizing like 2 months ago everyone did

I think you are right in most of the points you mentioned items got weakened/stronger units got weaken/stronger etc. but you miss the point of playing in competitive tournaments ( that i dunno if you are playing)

If you play just one game the enemy can gain advantage as our opponents knowing what weaknesses we have now with our best units but if you play a tournament, our opponents have to setup a good list against every possible army out there, thus in resulting not taking best against DE of course (or other picked out army)

So not every army will be setup to handle 8th DE, there will be some for sure.. but many got for example enough to handle the runner-ups msu armies thats my experience in the last weeks

Like in 7th we are still strong army, of course were beatable if just specialized to fight us in a friendly game, but besides DoC we were the best army out there on tournaments.. bit of a no brainer to be played like the author of this topic posted

This is still the case now on 8th edition tournaments. We are very strong against every army out there with a competitive list of ours and can react on most things.

DE generals will change their tactics of course.. but there are still very very strong lists and builts we can setup in a tournament. Not that no brainer anymore.. but no need to underestimate DE strongness

Up to now im pretty much happy with DE in 8th, where i was thinking they got nerfed tons before release.. i saw in the games i played its not the case, even more i think we took even while "losing" RoH or PoK or some setups we lost minor and stay on top tier 1-3.

All in all i can say, get out and play some more and then remake up your mind, theorizing is just good to a certain point tho

EDIT: And ya DE got relativly to other armies better in 8th edition.

[Starphoenix]

Your post just begs me to ask if you have played any games with DE under
8th?
I apologize in advance if I sound like a whiner. I do think DE are still powerful, but when someone say's that they're buffed in 8th Ed I just get so annoyed I can't shut up, so I'm gonna make a summarize as well:

In General:
We lost hatred on our Dragons, Manticores, characterbought cold ones and dark steeds, dark pegai. Loss of the Dragon hurts in high point games
It's debatable if we still have hatred on our CoK's CO's and Dark Riders DS's.
M5 means less now, although our I finally matters, so I'm gonna say they counter eachother out - no change. You are de-valuing march over charge - and since charge has lost a good deal of it's importance - M5 still means you can move faster than most foot troops.

We're an elven army with quite expensive fragile T3 troops with low/no armoursave. Like all elven armies along with WE and HE, we lost more than we gained from stepping up and remove-from-the-rear since even if we kill 10 enemy troops, they will still get to hit us - this is a big nerf to our infantry.
We gained supporting attacks as well, but overall this is a nerf to elven armies, DE included. This has always been a weaker point for all elf armies - I will agree that it is more difficult to counter than in the past - but you have to plan for it
Items:
+
Beastmasters Scourge/Whip of Agony got buffed.
Sac. Dagger is as powerful as ever, but it will affect 8th Ed. magicphases more than it would in 7th Ed.
-
Ring of Hotek got nerfed out of oblivion. It's actually worse than the 6th Ed. one now. So wrong I'm speechless
Pendant of Khaeleth is worse due to nearly all damage spells not having a strenght value anymore. It is now great miscast protectionPendant + Armour of Eternal Servitude is dead.
Black Staff is pretty much a pointsink now. Agreed - needs some FAQ help
Shooting: Neutral, no big change since 7th Ed. Two rank shooting allows RxB's to leave the high ground and join the fray. Musician reforms make them some of the best shooting troops in the game.

Magic: Our magicphase was brutal in 7th Ed, and will still be brutal in 8th Ed. Slight buff because most armies can't be that brutal.

Units:

Dreadlords/Masters. Neutral, no big change. Might suffer from more incomming attacks, but we got the armour to withstand most of it.

Sorcererss'. Druchii sorcery got slightly shafted but it's still usefull. Thanks to some of our magic item's we can have one of the most brutal magicphases in wfb atm, but that's due to the item's beeing good, not due to the sorcerer's - so I'm gonna say they didn't really gain or loose anything. Free PoD spell has more weight in 8th than 7th

Death Hags. T3 no save expensive hero? Yeah, I will take one for my CoB, but I'll never have one in a unit of Executioners/Witch Elves, because she will die as soon as she hits combat. No more ASFbanner for Exec's or Witch Elves. Never used these in 7th, always considered them to be fluff units

Assassins. Again, T3, no save expensive character. He got really gimped in close combat, and I can only imagine that you take him either because you love the modell/fluff/using one, or for the Manbane/Rendingstar combo - wich still works, altough it got nerfed abit.

Spears. Neutral, got the same rules all infantry got.

RxB's. Got better due to shooting in 2 ranks + shooting is better in general. Aren't we contradicting ourselves here?

Corsairs(adhw). slightly worse in the sense that they 'loose' 1 attack in the 2nd rank. Still overpriced.

Corsairs(rhb). Slightly better due to shooting in 2 ranks. 2 rank shooting and free move+shoot makes these guys pretty good
Dark Riders. Gained Vanguard - lost pretty much the main reason for taking them (redirecting, flanking, etc.), so worse of. Also lost effectiveness shooting a war machines, once a staple, now a dust collector.

Harpies. Alot worse, firstly due to Skirmisher changes and second for flyer changes. Also lost the ability to redirect/marchblock and crossfire properly. Still useable for annoyances and warmachine hunting, but worse of than they were last ed.

Witch Elves. Actually gained something. Supporting attacks will hurt them by a stupid amound, but frenzy got better and I6 is really great now. They are slightly better of.

Executioners. T3 elves in heavy armour with ASL? They we're quite bad in 7th Ed. (although I did use them), and they're even worse in 8th Ed. I can't see them having any place in a competitive list.

Shades: Scout got better, Skirmish got worse and a GW is suicide on a 18pts modell without a save. Shades are still very useable with adhw, but overall they got nerfed.

Cold One Chariot. It got better, simply put.

Cold One Knights. They are still good, however with the debatable loss on hatred for the mounts, and the nerf's affecting all Heavy Cav. in the game, they are worse of now than in last ed.

Black Guard. Still very good, still a nobrainer in a competetive list - however, as with all elven infantry, they will suffer from supporting attacks and such. Better of? Not really. Worse of? Yeah, slightly. But in truth they were under-priced in 8th, so I guess it balances out cosmically.

RBT's. I didn't like them in 7th Ed, and found them to be overpriced. Now in 8th Ed. they're even worse. Way worse of. Loved in 7th, not nearly as useful in 8th, maybe character hunting?

Hydra. I'm torn here, but I'm gonna say it's worse of now.
Yes, it's breath template is better and can be used in combat for extra oompff, but only once, and it gained thunderstomp (but so did all monsters), and the handlers are pretty much unkillable. However, it can no longer break ranks, it can no longer keep breathing on troops, it can no longer reliably break things alone since almost everything it fights will be steadfast, and Regen got alot worse. So yeah, it got buffed in some areas, but nerfed in others, and the nerfs overshadow the buffs. If you change your tactics hear you will see just how awesome the hydra is now. Used to support a troop block it is devastating. Add that there is no longer a bonus for shooting a large targets, and that it can take cover behind friendly troops, I'd say it got a big boost.
So that's it basicly. Some buffs but way more (and harder) nerfs.
Now you tell me with a straight honest face that Dark Elves got better in 8th Ed. and I'll try not to laugh or start crying. :rolleyes:
*Goes away while waiting for the 'cry me a river' replies


Specific DE army builds did get nerfed, others got boosted - Our strongest army builds will be very difficult to counter in competative play, unless you tailor a build against it - which won't be competative against other armies.