RBT in 8th
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- Undeadcatd
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RBT in 8th
pros :
More ranks for single shoot !
resistance to normal shooting(S3 , S4)
..................................................................
Math hammer
The chance to wound RBT with s3 s4 shooting :
7th :
1/3<random> 1/2 (wound with S3) = 1/6
.................... 2/3(wound with S4) = 2/9
8th :
1/6(wound)
...................................................................
Cons :
CAUSE PANIC
W 2
Easy to destroy with close combat(6 models can attack it compare to 4 in 7th )
Easy to destroy with cannon (no more randomized)
Conclusion :
with the (1) roll 6 = wound (2) increased T value of many unit , I dont think RBT are a good choice in 8th edition , I would rather buy 6 shades with AHW for almost same points
More ranks for single shoot !
resistance to normal shooting(S3 , S4)
..................................................................
Math hammer
The chance to wound RBT with s3 s4 shooting :
7th :
1/3<random> 1/2 (wound with S3) = 1/6
.................... 2/3(wound with S4) = 2/9
8th :
1/6(wound)
...................................................................
Cons :
CAUSE PANIC
W 2
Easy to destroy with close combat(6 models can attack it compare to 4 in 7th )
Easy to destroy with cannon (no more randomized)
Conclusion :
with the (1) roll 6 = wound (2) increased T value of many unit , I dont think RBT are a good choice in 8th edition , I would rather buy 6 shades with AHW for almost same points
Last edited by Undeadcatd on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
Well... 6 shades is worse than one RBT in many ways.
1. S3 shooting vs. S6 or S4 extra-armor-piercing. A RBT does like twice as much damage against Chaos Knights as shades. A RBT poses a real danger to dragons and tough things.
2. Range. A RBT poses a threat to things much further away than shades do. That mage hiding in a unit of bowmen 32" away? Your RBT can shoot him without being in range of the bowmen, the shades would have to run up where the enemy can charge/shoot him to do anything.
3. Survivability. 6 shades are only T3 no-armor-save. They can be dispatched with a single fireball or RBT multi-shot pretty easily. A fireball killing shades on 3+ needs a 6+ to put a wound on the bolt thrower.
A RBT is worse than 6 AHW shades in close-combat, but shades aren't cost-effective to use in combat anyway. Plus, the RBT has so much longer range that it shouldn't be engaged in close combat without the enemy sacrificing a whole lot for it.
The only Major downside I see to using RBT instead of shades is that, because it's better, the RBT is Rare and thus occasionally competes with our Hydra for Rare %.
The hydra is an ungodly awesome killing machine. 175 points for 7+2d6 S5 attacks and d6 strike last S5 attacks. T5, 5 wounds, 4+ save, 4+ regeneration. That's a possible 25 strong attacks in a single turn.
In many cases it's not an issue, such as at 2k you could afford
2 Hydras + 1 RBT and be within your Rare allowance. Just if you use any more than 1 RBT, you'd have to drop one hydra.
1. S3 shooting vs. S6 or S4 extra-armor-piercing. A RBT does like twice as much damage against Chaos Knights as shades. A RBT poses a real danger to dragons and tough things.
2. Range. A RBT poses a threat to things much further away than shades do. That mage hiding in a unit of bowmen 32" away? Your RBT can shoot him without being in range of the bowmen, the shades would have to run up where the enemy can charge/shoot him to do anything.
3. Survivability. 6 shades are only T3 no-armor-save. They can be dispatched with a single fireball or RBT multi-shot pretty easily. A fireball killing shades on 3+ needs a 6+ to put a wound on the bolt thrower.
A RBT is worse than 6 AHW shades in close-combat, but shades aren't cost-effective to use in combat anyway. Plus, the RBT has so much longer range that it shouldn't be engaged in close combat without the enemy sacrificing a whole lot for it.
The only Major downside I see to using RBT instead of shades is that, because it's better, the RBT is Rare and thus occasionally competes with our Hydra for Rare %.
The hydra is an ungodly awesome killing machine. 175 points for 7+2d6 S5 attacks and d6 strike last S5 attacks. T5, 5 wounds, 4+ save, 4+ regeneration. That's a possible 25 strong attacks in a single turn.
In many cases it's not an issue, such as at 2k you could afford
2 Hydras + 1 RBT and be within your Rare allowance. Just if you use any more than 1 RBT, you'd have to drop one hydra.
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Re: RBT in 8th
UndeadcatD wrote:pros :
More resistance to normal shooting(S3 S4 etc)
..................................................................
Math hammer
The chance to wound RBT with s3 s4 shooting :
7th :
2/3<random> 1/2 (wound with S3) = 1/3
.................... 2/3(wound with S4) = 4/9
8th :
1/6(wound)
...................................................................
Do your mathhammer again. Against S3 shooting, its a wash. Ranged attacks have the same lethality against the RBT in 7th and 8th Edition. Against ranged attacks at S4, RBTs have less survivability than in 7th ed. (1/6 chance of wounding the RBT with 2 wounds - the crew - in 8th ed. versus 3 wounds - the war machine - in 7th ed.). Certainly in 7th ed. one-third of the ranged hits were resolved against the crew rather than the war machine itself, meaning ranged attacks needed three 6's or two wounds on the crew to put it out of commission, spreading out the damage amongst 5 wounds. Now S4 ranged attacks only require two 6's to wound.
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- Undeadcatd
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Re: RBT in 8th
@asikari
edit that , forget about 1/3 not 2/3 will allocate to crews
according to my memory , hit of 5,6 will allocate to crew on 7th , not just 6.
so , RBT still got more resistance to S4 shooting than 7th
it's crew that important.
7th
1/3 2/3 = 2/9 = 9 hits to kill the crew and disable them
8th
1/6 = 12 hits to disable RBT
correct me if anything wrong
edit that , forget about 1/3 not 2/3 will allocate to crews
according to my memory , hit of 5,6 will allocate to crew on 7th , not just 6.
so , RBT still got more resistance to S4 shooting than 7th
it's crew that important.
7th
1/3 2/3 = 2/9 = 9 hits to kill the crew and disable them
8th
1/6 = 12 hits to disable RBT
correct me if anything wrong
Redid my math. Your numbers work. Somehow it just seems like it will be easier to take out the crew now with S4 or higher attacks. Not that there are huge numbers of those out there.
"The strength you normally use is like the small visible segment of an iceberg..." Tohei-sensai
"Few problems can't be solved by the judicious application of brute force" Asikari
"Few problems can't be solved by the judicious application of brute force" Asikari
- Undeadcatd
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I for once always loved our RBTs... Altough sometimes they prove absolutely useless (thanx to cursed dice gods) they tend to change your opponents playstyle and deployment...
Either way I find them reliable enough, in this edition as in all before..
I never leave home without at least 2.. Still perfect for evaporizing those fast troublesome elements and big badass stuff.
Noone likes to be shot with RBT... I for one know that...
Either way I find them reliable enough, in this edition as in all before..
I never leave home without at least 2.. Still perfect for evaporizing those fast troublesome elements and big badass stuff.
Noone likes to be shot with RBT... I for one know that...
(\__/)
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(> < ) This is the Assassin Bunny.
He has been specially trained by "the Old man of the Mountain".
He looks cute and than bites off your aorta when you least expect it..
(O.o )
(> < ) This is the Assassin Bunny.
He has been specially trained by "the Old man of the Mountain".
He looks cute and than bites off your aorta when you least expect it..
- Hack n slash
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- Undeadcatd
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I think there was similar rule before which reduced the rate of fire of warmachines in general when crew was at below 50%...
However it didn't influence our precious RBT... I'd like to think that will stay, more so since we have only 2 crewmen...
However it didn't influence our precious RBT... I'd like to think that will stay, more so since we have only 2 crewmen...
(\__/)
(O.o )
(> < ) This is the Assassin Bunny.
He has been specially trained by "the Old man of the Mountain".
He looks cute and than bites off your aorta when you least expect it..
(O.o )
(> < ) This is the Assassin Bunny.
He has been specially trained by "the Old man of the Mountain".
He looks cute and than bites off your aorta when you least expect it..
hack n slash wrote:Check out p111 in the really big red book(rbrb) you need two crew to shoot it now so one wound and it's useless major bummer.
OUCH!
Do I see that right, that only bolt throwers have this? All the other warmachines work perfectly fine to the last man (not even the "shoot every other turn" when the crew is reduced below half)?
Though, strictly by the book, this only applies to single shots, because only then you are refered to the rulebook bolt thrower. The volley shot has its own rules, which are not limited by number of crew in any way.
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Thanee
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Ok. I need to take a stand for my boys that are taking a beating. I'm reading just the RBRB, because I can't get the FAQ @ work.
1st paragraph is an explanation of how it works in general- it is fluff text.
Descriptors have changed to 1 shot, Multiple wound (D3) item. Still says nothing about a penalty.
Normal To Hit penalties (and probably the whole "roll another die on 6 to hit 7-9 T creatures... but that's a guess)
Resolution for the RBT appears to be similar to a cannonball (I think. only been hit by 4, and was too busy crying at the time) in which you may hit the Front Rank, or the Back Rank. this Rank is hit with S6 hit.-1 (cumulative) to each Rank after that as per Illustration C on the page (S6, S5, S4, S3, S2)
BUT ONLY if a target in the Rank has been slain. The only diminutive to this is "If it's 5 or more models, a Champ or Character is not hit"
they have the War Machine Rule- only 6 (or 3 mounted, or a guy on a dragon) MODELS can beat on it (so get reinforcements in on it FAST) and are counted IBC (p. 110), 109 says Move OR Fire/ Slow to Shoot depending on the RBT notations, Crew does not count for Cover or blocking LOS, and cannot be Charged or attacked separately.. aaaaaaand the Machine always FAILS every test, except T & L.
WHERE are all the rumours coming from?
1st paragraph is an explanation of how it works in general- it is fluff text.
Descriptors have changed to 1 shot, Multiple wound (D3) item. Still says nothing about a penalty.
Normal To Hit penalties (and probably the whole "roll another die on 6 to hit 7-9 T creatures... but that's a guess)
Resolution for the RBT appears to be similar to a cannonball (I think. only been hit by 4, and was too busy crying at the time) in which you may hit the Front Rank, or the Back Rank. this Rank is hit with S6 hit.-1 (cumulative) to each Rank after that as per Illustration C on the page (S6, S5, S4, S3, S2)
BUT ONLY if a target in the Rank has been slain. The only diminutive to this is "If it's 5 or more models, a Champ or Character is not hit"
they have the War Machine Rule- only 6 (or 3 mounted, or a guy on a dragon) MODELS can beat on it (so get reinforcements in on it FAST) and are counted IBC (p. 110), 109 says Move OR Fire/ Slow to Shoot depending on the RBT notations, Crew does not count for Cover or blocking LOS, and cannot be Charged or attacked separately.. aaaaaaand the Machine always FAILS every test, except T & L.
WHERE are all the rumours coming from?
Oderint dum Metuant.