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The 8th edition corsair 
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Dragon Lord
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AP + AP = AP not APx2

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Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:38 am
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Dark Rider

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In fact, in 8th edition it could be.

It's not clear, but it states that, unless a rule says otherwise, all special rules stack.

I don't have my book at hand right now, but it was somewhere in the special rules section.


Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:37 am
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Hah! I didn't think they stacked. I totally ruled out Witch Elves this evening based on that. I'm glad you said they didn't so I would look it up.

Quote:
BrB 66
Unless otherwise noted, the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative.


:)

Awesome.

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Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:22 am
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Dragon Lord
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That is actually a valid point and would make Lore of Metal much more useful for us (Repeater Crossbows with -2 AS would be even more deadly)

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:24 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I think Corsairs will still suffer in 8th from being rather expensive basic infantry.
Both they and Witches I think were fairly jibbed by the fact that you only get one supporting attack and not three. This gives a big advantage to units with a small number of high strength attacks, particularly now that our opponents will generally always attack back.

For instance before we'd have 21 S3 attacks and then face probably 2-3 S5/6 attacks back.

Now we have 28 S3 attacks and always face 10 S5/6 attacks back.

RHB Corsairs though I think are now better. Shooting in two ranks means vs small units of cav or skirmishers they are stubborn! They also wound all things on 6's which is good.

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Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:39 am
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I don't really agree with that, Bounce. They maybe comparably expensive, but RHB corsairs are one of the best units to use against hordes. You are just taking into account the situation where they face units with a few high-strength attacks, which usually are well armoured on top of everything else, but not against hordes. A hore unit that has been taken down to about 40 models, a unit of 30 corsairs deployed 10 wide will cause 10 wounds or thereabouts (if they have armour piercing - though I don't know how that works with the new rules saying it only applies to close combat now - can someone clear that up for me?), considering hordes rarely have better than 6+ armour saves, and another 10 from stand and shoot, which cuts them down to 20 models, and then in close combat, another 7-10 models will die.

Hordes, not being particularly good in combat (which is the reason to field them in large units, after all). You won't be facing a lot of attacks back and then they'll break and be run down. I rather like the idea, actually. Once I've painted all my imperial units, that will be the next thing I'm going to order. On top of that I rather like the models.

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Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:24 am
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Executioner
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Bounce wrote:
I think Corsairs will still suffer in 8th from being rather expensive basic infantry.
Both they and Witches I think were fairly jibbed by the fact that you only get one supporting attack and not three. This gives a big advantage to units with a small number of high strength attacks, particularly now that our opponents will generally always attack back.

For instance before we'd have 21 S3 attacks and then face probably 2-3 S5/6 attacks back.

Now we have 28 S3 attacks and always face 10 S5/6 attacks back.

RHB Corsairs though I think are now better. Shooting in two ranks means vs small units of cav or skirmishers they are stubborn! They also wound all things on 6's which is good.


Hey, at least now spear armed lizardmen have their number of attacks cut short. My eyes use to ALWAYS pop out whenever I charged a block of lizards and after dropping three of four of them, they'd still pick up 20+ dice and butcher two ranks of my elf!

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Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:47 am
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Bounce wrote:

Hey, at least now spear armed lizardmen have their number of attacks cut short. !




How so?


Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:46 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Supporting attacks are always 1 per model no matter the model's A statistic or special rules adding attacks.

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7th edition army book:
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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:54 pm
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Except unless you're a monstrous infantry, in which case you'll get up to 3A/model in the supporting rank. Just in case some people get confused.

Btw, a question just popped up in my head. IF a monstrous infantry unit used spears, would their third supporting rank still only get 1A each? Not that a unit of such description comes to mind. Does the MI rule state second supporting rank? Or just supporting rank? It'd be funny if a 3x3 spear armed MI unit could fight with 3A for their third rank too, not that it'd be funny for us since we don't have such units to utilise. :roll:

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Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
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Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:29 am
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Dragon Lord
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As funny as that would be, a 3x3 block of ogres with spears would indeed make 27 attacks.

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
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Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:35 am
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Oh...gg

so if they're in a 6x4 horde formation using spears, they'll lash out with 72 str5 attacks + 6 stomps? :O

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What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:01 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Meteor- Ogres are S4.. and can they use spears? (Only played against OK once.)

Back on topic, Corsairs are definitely more viable in 8th, so I will be dusting mine off for a few games.

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:13 pm
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my bad, don't vs OK much :)
they don't use spears, they were used as an MI example for my question that's all haha. Sorry for going off topic, I too, am definitely taking corsairs on board, time to fix up their base positioning and paint them up!

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What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:30 pm
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Shade
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10 RHB corsairs can shoot in 2 ranks so 5 models in front and 5 in the back.
Seems very flexible during movement.

10 points for each corsair is 'much' point but for shooting it could work.
8th edition means enemy armies use more bigger blocks of unit.
Maybee small shooting units is good agains it.


Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:24 pm
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Warrior

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I can not justify to use the corsairs over witches. Yes the strike hard with sss but witches got poison. The corsairs can have characters but i use my witches as anti light infantery and they dont need anny characters for that.

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:25 pm
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Quote:
I can not justify to use the corsairs over witches. Yes the strike hard with sss but witches got poison. The corsairs can have characters but i use my witches as anti light infantery and they dont need anny characters for that.

Point for point I agree. Although the armour on the corsairs does count for a bit. More in 8th since more infantry units means more S3/4 attacks than in 7th.

The real thing that makes (xhw) corasirs worth taking instead of withches is simply that they are core and use up that mandatory 25%. This wasn't so much of an issue in 7th because you could simply take 3 cheap units, but now you actually have to fioll the points. So if you want a dragon, Lv2, bsb, assassin, 2 hydras and perhaps an rbt or any (non witch) special unit you are likely to have used up ~75% of your army. If you want a witch-like unit you can only go for corsairs. And comparing witches and corsairs, there's not much in it really.

And of course as you have already said you can hide your characters in corsairs.

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Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:27 am
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Personally, the armor save is a *big* addition. Everytime I field Witch Elves, I find that the enemy cackles in glee as they shoot at them, while with Corsairs, they're one of our hardest units to shoot at because of that 4+ save.

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Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:27 pm
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And a stray wound here and there on a WE is guaranteed death. That's 10pts popped by a lucky partial or hit. Corsairs will make people work harder for that 10pts whilst dishing out a respectable amount of pain on the same WS, S and I in CC.

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What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:38 am
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Noble
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Personally, the only thing that I'll be using Witches for over Corsairs is flanking units. Same price, and I should have much scarier stuff, like a big Corsair block, Black-Guard, Hydra, etc. to keep them from being shot. And if they are, so what? That means the aforementioned units get into battle without as much shooting done at them. Win/win for me.

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http://www.freedomstudios.net/boredlife/boards/index.php?sid=18db5076e750fafca78c5ae7ed86bab3
Bored Life: Forum for RPs and general discussion in need of new blood. PM for details.


Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:53 am
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I actually run a block of 40 corsairs. At 10 wide they are amazing as they benefit from the horde rule, allowing 3 ranks to attack. I put a bsb with the banner of nagarythe and gave the standar bearer the banner of murder. I also put a master with aod and cd. The combo works quite well and has performed exceptionally in all my games. It is extremely resiliant.

Icing Death

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Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:30 am
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Icing Death wrote:
I actually run a block of 40 corsairs. At 10 wide they are amazing as they benefit from the horde rule, allowing 3 ranks to attack. I put a bsb with the banner of nagarythe and gave the standar bearer the banner of murder. I also put a master with aod and cd. The combo works quite well and has performed exceptionally in all my games. It is extremely resiliant.

Icing Death


It is also a Deathstar 8) . And you would expect something that costs about 800 points to be 'extremely resiliant' :P

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Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:34 am
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Like Malekith on a dragon :)

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What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:38 am
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Highborn
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The new Rulebook FAQ clears up that 2xAP is stil only AP

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Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:59 am
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Shade
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Haplo wrote:
The new Rulebook FAQ clears up that 2xAP is stil only AP

Good they make a faq of it.
Thanks for the information.

Icing Death
The look of 40 Corsairs is very cool and I think it's fun/handy too use it
40 Corsairs seems very hard too move.
Big block :shock:

Maybee i try 2 units of 12 Corsairs (each unit = 2 x 6) give them both units handbows.
agains eneny infantery blocks they work toogetter. and if used well they can shoot pretty often.
12 Corsairs means 24 shots is about 6 wounds agains Toughness 3.
That is 1 round of shootting
Poor high elf swordmasters :twisted: ;)


Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:56 am
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