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DE flying Circus?
http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65945
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Author:  Sturguard [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  DE flying Circus?

Just thought of this, was wondering if it is worth the points:

Dark Elf Master, DP, Heavy Armor, Shield, Dragon Cloak, Lance, Pendant
Dark Elf Master, DP, Heavy Armor, Shield, Dragon Cloak, Lance, Ring of Darkness
Dark Elf Master, DP, Heavy Armor, Shield, Dragon Cloak, Lance and either Dragon Egg or Crown of Command.
You can put a null talisman on one of them and the Ring of Foolhardiness

3xMonstrous Cavalry are steadfast. Rank them conga style with the pendant in front, with the dragon cloaks, and ring of darkness any missile attack will have little chance of doing anything, and cannons you should be okay 5/6th of the time (but cannons will only have a turn most likely to hit you). When you charge, hit them with the CoB for 13 str 6 attacks (ring is +1) and 6 str 5 attacks with the DP. Not enough to break 50 goblins but against higher priced units such as cav or chaos warriors, maybe. Alternatively, they could break off, the one with the helm could tie up a unit of something cheap while the other two mage hunt/artillery hunt. Are they worth the 500 pt pricetag? Alternatively you could split them and put them in units and if a high sorceress was your lord choice, the master with the crown of command could be your general and make a unit of troops stubborn. It may be a ridiculous idea but it hit me when I was thinking about the sorceress on DP.

Author:  Calisson [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

There might be something written p.97. to prevent that:
although a character on a flying mount may join a unit, and a character may form a unit with other characters, however there is the sentence preventing a character to join a unit of flyers.
Therefore, if I understand clearly the rules, all your Masters could join the same unit, but not make a unit together themselves.

Besides that, they would be steadfast only facing a zero rank unit.

Author:  Sturguard [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

Calisson, I read that part as well, but don't think it is the gist of the rule.

First..
"Characters can join other characters belonging to one of the troop types listed above forming an improptu unit entirely made of characters"

I see your point but, is a Master on a DP a unit of flyers? I would think they would be classified as a unit of MB's? They use the example of "too many ill disciplined wings buffeting the sky"- I wouldn't use those words to describe a master on a dark pegasus.

True, the unit would only be streadfast again zero ranks, but with the Crown, the whole unit would be stubborn on ldr 9 so it would be irrelevant. Would certainly be fun to try, I don't think it would be earthshattering or game breaking but could be effective in certain situations- heck the three man charging unit could at least kill a dragon before the mighty lord atop cut them down one at a time. Alternatively you could give one of them the black dragon egg instead of the Ring of darkness and do 13 str 6, 6 str 5 and 2d6 str 4 attacks and 3 stomp attacks on the charge which is kind of nice.

Author:  Timz [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 

That much hero points could only be used in 2100-2500 or whatever, where it'd probably instant-die.

If they're in one unit and get shot by cannon/bolt thrower, 2/3rds the time it doesn't hit the PoK guy. A single shot could kill the ring of darkness or crown of command guy.

Magic is going to be a problem. They'll go down in a flash. MR(1) won't save them from being utterly obliterated by a 3d6 fireball or 2d6 metal hits wounding them on 2+ and ignoring PoK and their save.

And with crown of command and null - it'd cost a whole 543 points for some pretty mediocre stats. One or two of them is gonna get quickly shot/magic'd dead and they won't have hitting power to break anything.

For the same cost you could buy 34 shades to go war machine hunting. They appear 12" away from cannons and shoot 68 shots, next turn they charge them.

There are probably specific list builds for specific armies which the flying circus might be useful against, but I think they're not the norm.

Author:  Sturguard [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

Timz, I agree they wouldn't most likely be optimal in most games, I was more wondering if indeed it was possible to put characters together in a unit, even though Pegasus fly and second, I thought it would be a cool modelling project. My problem with alot of the dark elf models is I don't really like them, so as for me, modelling is as much fun as anything else, I look for units/models I can convert. Unfortunately, I find myself waiting to do any spearmen until something comes along without giant hands of the current ones (I converted my crossbowmen, harpies, dark riders and cauldron) I like the shades, witch elves and hydra. I am thinking of running 2 independent masters on Pegasus. One with the ring of hoteck and cloak of hag graef to WM hunt/try and mess with enemy mages and one with the crown of command to use to do likewise or just tie up enemy units. With the crown you could take some armor boosting items to end up with a 1+ armor save which against most large block of enemies you could hold them up a few turns if needed or just use him to flank. Alternatively, I could put him in a unit of spearmen to keep them from running- the nice thing about the dark pegasus is it has such a high move and to join a unit, all the character has to do is touch it in his move and you get moved to the front. Again, I am not trying to find the fountain of youth, just some modelling projects that would look cool and have a role on the battlefield. Do either of the above have any merit? Finally, there isn't much in the game that can't be destroyed via magic, no matter how many points you sink into them, that same unit of shades could lose 2/3 of its members on turn 1 by an IF dwellers from below. Just my two cents.

Author:  Timz [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

A flyer is anything with the rule "Fly"

"All flyers have the Swifstride special rule." (70) doesn't mean that only flying infantry have the swiftstride, it also applies to flying cavalry, flying monsters, flying characters, anything is a Flyer if it has Fly.

Troop types listed are - Infantry, Monstrous Infantry, Cavalry, Monstrous Cavalry, Swarms, War Beasts, Monstrous Beasts, Monsters.

Being a flyer is just an addition to the normal type of the unit for having Fly.

A Master riding a Dark Pegasus is a Monstrous Cavalry and Flyer, there is no separate type "Flyer." Flying infantry, flying cavalry, flying monsters are all their normal type + flyer.

"Unless otherwise stated, a character cannot join a unit of flyers." (Page 97)

No vagueness whatsoever. It states that it's not legal in 8th.

You can still model and use them. Just not as a death star.

Author:  Sturguard [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

That was my point above, what do you think of two of them used as described? Either both behind some terrain or one in a unit and the other warmachine hunting behind some harpies? He would at least enjoy some soft cover?

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