Using RxBow units instead of spears?

[Dutchoven]

Does anyone think this is worth taking a look at? I was just thinking, I had a block of 25 spears hold up for a few rounds vs some empire greatswords until my BG came to help. At the same time I had a group of 16 Rxb holding my flank from knights. I was thinking since they lasted just as long as the spears why even use spears?

you can field 2 hordes 3 ranks deep with shields/hw walk, shoot, and survive in combat? you would shred most stuff before you reached it... Just a wild thought.

[Evolvingeye]

RXB are better all around imo, but they are also more expensive. It really just comes down to the individual army list. If I'm running a supreme sorceress with the Sacrificial Dagger in a unit I prefer spearmen since you can take more and if you are sacrificing RXBs you are reducing the effectiveness of their shooting.

Just my 2 cents

[Ichiyo1821]

It's because Spearmen are cheaper to get steadfast. That along with Saacrificial makes them more economical lol!

[Rabidnid]

Spears are cheaper for larger blocks, and they do get an extra rank if the fight goes gos on for any time. We will be using a lot of core, and replacing 25 RXB with spears will save 100 points.

I plan on using both most of the time, the spear block to lead with its face and the RXB to flank things and thin out the enemy with shooting. They can certainly fight as well as spears, but they should not be immediately commited and used more as a reserve in that role.

[Dutchoven]

Ah that makes sense, I didn't factor in the extra cost for them. Ive been running 2 rows of 8 ever since I painted them and I think they've killed more guys that my 2 blocks of 50 spears...

[Tethlis]

Indeed, if you're going to be in a huge combat, spears are the better choice. Obviously, a crossbow doesn't help very much when melee starts, and you're paying a lot more points for a crossbowman than you are for a spearman. I also find that the extra rank of attacks from warriors makes a tremendous difference; WS4, Initiative 5 and Hatred gives our basic Core warriors a strong advantage over other rank-and-file Core infantry, and having an extra rank of spear attacks can be very decisive. Ultimately though, point cost is everything.

[Thanee]

Our Repeater Crossbowmen are very cool, because they are quite capable in melee (for a Core unit). I have often send them into melee later in the game, when shooting often becomes less useful.

Bye
Thanee

[Tethlis]

Our Repeater Crossbowmen are very cool, because they are quite capable in melee (for a Core unit). I have often send them into melee later in the game, when shooting often becomes less useful.

Agreed. Especially when the middle of the board gets bogged down with melee, and with obstructed units getting a Hard Cover, I find my crossbowmen easily run out of targets later in the game. I usually find myself reforming them around Turn 3, and keeping them on standby to commit to combat if necessary. It's an outstanding role for them, I've been incredibly pleased with their versatility as a "second wave" combat and shooting regiment.

[Dutchoven]

Indeed, if you're going to be in a huge combat, spears are the better choice. Obviously, a crossbow doesn't help very much when melee starts, and you're paying a lot more points for a crossbowman than you are for a spearman. I also find that the extra rank of attacks from warriors makes a tremendous difference; WS4, Initiative 5 and Hatred gives our basic Core warriors a strong advantage over other rank-and-file Core infantry, and having an extra rank of spear attacks can be very decisive. Ultimately though, point cost is everything.

Well since Warriors have in their profile HW/ spears/ light armour does that mean they can attack in 3 ranks + get the 6+parry save if equipped with a shield?

[Count zero]

Well since Warriors have in their profile HW/ spears/ light armour does that mean they can attack in 3 ranks + get the 6+parry save if equipped with a shield?

No because they must use the spear in CC in 8th Ed. New rule is that if you have a special weapon you must use it (so along the same lines Exec's must use their GW now, no more KB Hand weapon attacks)

[Dutchoven]

Oh, I thought it only applied to magical weapons...

[Corwin]

A somewhat related question: does the advantages of bringing a large block of Repeater Crossbowmen to have the opportunity to reform later in the battle and help in hand-to-hand outweigh those of having two smaller units but thusly being able to divide your fire between two different targets? If you're shooting annoying little troops like 5 scouts or light cavalry, it might be a bit of a loss to unleash the power of that much bolts in ne go.

[Maldor]

Depends on other list elements. I like the flexibility of multiple smaller units, but a single large unit will benefit more from spell buffs, banners, and items like the guiding eye.

[Tethlis]

two units of 10 don't serve nearly the same combat role as one unit of 20. A unit of 20 elves is a respectable fighting block; a unit of 10 elves is Victory Points for anything decent at combat.

[Persuader]

I've played 10 games under 8th edition always with 24 x RXB's and 50xWarriors (Horde formation)
I won 8/9 2500point games (lost one agianst OnG because of a feedback scroll... 5dices 4 wounds....)

In 7th I always found the 3 core units 'a must' now I don't mind taking my regular core coises.
50Warriors (normally with a Lord in it for some extra dmg output. Not that 40 KB attacks need extra dmg output but if my opponent has a character in his unit I'll have him by the nuts. )

And 48 crossbow shots rock (Last game I casted -2T on my enemies Chosen in turn 1. moments later 6 Chosen were eating dust )

[Sulla]

Wow. One mage plus 250pts of shooting to kill 6 guys. He could just take a hellcannon to do double that every third turn plus panic tests.

I'm not a fan of either in 8th. Big units are template bait and everyone in my group brings max templates. I go for guys who have most of their hitting power in the front rank (sadly my executioners are still consigned to the shelf). In terms of core, that means corsairs and dark riders (cheap and cheerful standard carrying units for flesh and blood, good war machine hunters for other scenarios).

[Dutchoven]

The strategy that works best for me is running 2 5x5 blocks of spears with a group of 15 BG and 15 Ex with a hydra. Gives the opponent to many things to think about when shooting phase comes....

[Archontheblack]

I've been fielding a block of 30 repeaters in horde fashion (an homage to the old city guard) and they perform very very well. Throw a Master in there with the guiding eye for extra kill power or the ring of darkness for sturdier defense and you have a very solid unit.

That's a volley of 40 shots in the shooting phase and an impressive stand and shoot charge reaction (a good use for the guiding eye). So as your opponent charges into a hail of bolts, they then get to hit I5 infantry that fights in 3 ranks with 5+AS and a 6+ parry save.

[Dutchoven]

Thats nasty, cant you volley fire? making it 60 shots...?

[Red...]

No, only bows can volleyfire.

[Meteor]

who cares about volleyfire when we shoot twice as many shots out?? :O

[Toddums]

This is relevant to my interests, as I am painting my first xbowmen now

[The virgin forest]

I'm not a fan of either in 8th. Big units are template bait and everyone in my group brings max templates. I go for guys who have most of their hitting power in the front rank (sadly my executioners are still consigned to the shelf). In terms of core, that means corsairs and dark riders (cheap and cheerful standard carrying units for flesh and blood, good war machine hunters for other scenarios).

I agree on this. Frenzied corsairs and witch elves are my main force. Combined with Lore of Shadow hexes and Ockhams they tear through everything like melted butter.

Try using those execs in a 30 man horde and bless them with a 5+ ward. They will amaze you - and they'll look awesome while doing so