Executioners and the battle standard

[Erethain]

Now that we strike in Inititative order Black Guard dont really need the banner of hag graef so i had an idea, i really like the fluff and models of the Executioners but haven't used them before. striking last with only heavy armour to protect them, they would benefit from having the ASF banner among them to cancel out the ASL rule and allow them to strike in I order. a death hag with a battle standard and the hag graef banner would be cheap and useful, but is this a good use of the battle standard?

[Dalamar]

Except the said Death Hag will die in the first round of any combat she's in. Doing 2 wounds to a T3 model isn't hard.

[Tzelok]

It WAS a good use, as she would usually kill out any enemies in B2B contact, however now with the step up rule that 200 point BSB with no armour save or ward save would die VERY quickly, most likely in the first round of combat. You're better off spending the points on more executioners to help mitigate the deaths from ASL.

[Erethain]

ahh thanks, i'll have to get a few more executioners then

[Rogue-gladiator]

I was thinking about this the other day, and while it probably isn't enough protection, thought I would run it by you guys. What if you gave your hag the dance of doom, hand of khaine, hit the unit with the glittering scales spell, and challenge the unit champion? I know a 5+ armour/5+ ward isn't much, but is it not even worth considering at all?

[Masked jackal]

I was thinking about this the other day, and while it probably isn't enough protection, thought I would run it by you guys. What if you gave your hag the dance of doom, hand of khaine, hit the unit with the glittering scales spell, and challenge the unit champion? I know a 5+ armour/5+ ward isn't much, but is it not even worth considering at all?

Except that even then, she's in a lot of trouble. Glittering Robe won't be guaranteed to go off every turn, and you'd be blowing a lot of points for protection that isn't even enough to keep her alive. Better just to not use Death Hags at all.

[Tethlis]

Ironically enough, the biggest threat to the Death Hag BSB are just plain rank-and-file fodder. She's still just as effective as ever if you know you can wipe out the opposing unit in one round of combat, and with Banner of Hag Graef-supported Executioners and Rune of Khaine/Manbane attacks, she could easily go after monsters, heavy cavalry, mid-sized monsters, or anything with a fairly low wound count that could reasonable be killed off in one round of Draich-swinging combat.

Otherwise though, it's just too risky. As long as anything survives to hit back, the Hag's in big trouble.

[Bounce]

If you stuck her on the corner of a 7-wide unit, only two models would be able to attack her. Good chance of her surviving. Also if she challenges and kills her opponent she doesn't need to worry, due to her high I this is quite doable against unit champs so they'll probably refuse.

[Rogue-gladiator]

If you stuck her on the corner of a 7-wide unit, only two models would be able to attack her. Good chance of her surviving. Also if she challenges and kills her opponent she doesn't need to worry, due to her high I this is quite doable against unit champs so they'll probably refuse.

What happens when you hit a 10 wide unit though? I want the bsb in executioners to work myself, but I just don't see it doing so, unfortunately.

[Masked jackal]

One big thing to note is that hitting first or last isn't really that important to executioners except when the unit has been chopped down to a small size. They still get their return attacks until you're down to the first two ranks. The only time you'd take a Death Hag BSB is for a big unit, and the Executioners should chop away any resistance, and against cheap infantry, the only time they'd be losing, the combat would last long enough for you to send flanking units in to save them. The Death Hag would have little chance of surviving that long combat to where she'd have an effect. Bad bad choice to take her in that big unit.

[Bounce]

If you stuck her on the corner of a 7-wide unit, only two models would be able to attack her. Good chance of her surviving. Also if she challenges and kills her opponent she doesn't need to worry, due to her high I this is quite doable against unit champs so they'll probably refuse.

What happens when you hit a 10 wide unit though? I want the bsb in executioners to work myself, but I just don't see it doing so, unfortunately.

Expand your unit to be 12 wide
Yeah its definitely not optimal but still fun.

[Lord tsunami]

If she is in a horde of executioners, she can potentially avoid all combat. If you give her the ASF banner, and the executioners +1M chances are you will get the charge. If you do, she can be left outside combat as long as the enemy is less than 160mm wide (8 small or 7 big bases). In both cases in the pic 21+10 models can fight, so its perfectly legal. The enemy is not allowed to "clip" your unit to bring more attacks against the BSB, cause that would make less models able to fight in total



As i proved in a different thread, a horde of executioners chop everything to pieces, including khorne warriors with halberds

[Mr. anderson]

But how... realistic would a Witch elf, and one of the most bloodthirsty ones in existence, at that, be standing back modestly and just sort of watch the fight, reserving judgement. Also, you know what happens when a witch elf returns from battle and doesn't look like she's been swimming in blood.

I would much rather do things differently. Executioners were never meant to chop down lightly armored infantry. They can take out heavy cavalry without so much as breaking a sweat. If they take a cavalry charge (assuming, of course, they have the ASF banner), and assuming you have them 7 wide, and they have the banner of murder, for good measure, they'll do about 8 wounds (more or less, against WS4 T3-4, 1+ save knights), and the other 2 will be taken down by the hag. 10 Heavy cav dead before they even get to strike. Assuming your opponent doesn't field them in numbers larger than, say, 15, the hag has a rather decent chance of survival if you kit her out properly.
If all else fails you can also just give them the cauldron buff so they kill another 3 knights, making sure that even 18+ have almost no chance at wiping them out, or even causing considerable damage.

For good measure (if you want to focus that many points in one unit), you can also take an assassin (as long as there isn't anything attacking back, he'll be fine) and they'll be able to hold their own against moderately sized units like greatswords and their likes.

[Lord tsunami]

well... nothing really have to fear knights anymore. almost all fights your executioners get in to will be against infantry. they will shear through all types of infantry with ease. goblins or chaos warriors. being able to kill cavalry too is just a bonus.

EDIT: dont assume the "enemy" was lightly armored ******* just because i painted them pink!

EDIT 2: wth? i cant type *******? thats a friggin flower!

using my unit of 40 executioners with a hag (who isnt fighting)

12 knights charge: 15,21 knights die before they can strike.

18 chaos warriors with shield (6x3) charge: 14,98 dies.

100 goblins with spears attack: (hag fights with manbane + rune of khane) 19,38 die. 3,44 executioners die in return. sure you will be stuck for a while, but any unit would be against such a unit.


naturally, if all you were going to fight was massive units of light infantry, you should bring BG instead, but against most enemy units, a horde of executioners will be superior. im not saying it will be fun and challenging to play with, but it IS terribly strong.

[A18no]

One of the best way to protect the BSB is to not include a champs in the unit and hope that your opponent throw a challenge!! That way if you refuse, the hag is the only character that can be moved to the second rank, banner can still be use (just not the ld)!!