Adapting to 8th ed rules.

[Dread_knight666]

I have been trying to adapt my list to the new rules and I am determined to use my current models because I do not wish to purchase anymore. Problem is I can't see a use for many of our unit entries any longer.

I have been reading a little of the new book and this forum and what I have gathered so far:

RBT out
Elite infantry out
DR out
Assassins out

My previous tactic was to rush the enemy with a semi MSU list and butcher them, witch worked great, but now will fall flat on it's face I am sure. So I am thinking of changing my tactics to a more reactive stance.

I am thinking of a 40 man horde unit of HB corsairs with AP banner led by a supreme sorceress with black dragon egg.

Then lots of RXB units, 40-60 in 2-3 units

Probably stick with my 10 harpies in two units to hunt war machines.

I will use 18 executioners as a flanker to my corsairs. In addition I will include hydras, COC and possibly COK to body guard my shooters and attack when the enemy is soft.

A fundamental breakdown of my new list and strategy, seems fairly bland.

Will this strategy work in 8th ed?

Is their a place for my RBT, shades, DR and assassin in 8th?

Will a COB work with this list? In my previous list the COB had synergy with every unit and it worked well, this list only has a handful of units.

Should I plan to have an additional sorceress?

I have many questions, 8th ed essentially looks like an entirely different game from my perspective and playstyle.

[Calisson]

COB BSB seems a must-have with any army using mass units.

You need desperately warmachine hunters. These can be AHW Shades, more deadly than harpies.

DR could be useful, like harpies, in order to scavenge fleeing units.

I see a use for an assassin... to assassinate? If you could remove the opposing BSB who is IMO the most important model in any game.

RBT are expensive, but I'd think a little bit more before ruling them out definitively.

Elites are under discussion in a couple of ongoing topics.

[L1qw1d]

I find that damage output for Cores to be less than Elites, even with similar stats. Everything seems (to our armies) to need to be very "calibrated" (more than the average Empire or Skaven/ Horde army)

Assassins are very specific now: Aim them at the important people or war machines, and don't expect to take out waves of Cores.

Having 2 Sorceresses is just HANDY, but it's just as handy as it was in 7th. If you can't set them on fire, Shadows consume them type of thing.

RBT... haven't changed as much as people say. Do you use a lot of shots instead of hydra charging? RBT does S6 D3 Multi Wounds, with one die being lost per rank(as long as you get the kill), or we Armour Pierce and hit the guy 6 times S3. Same as before. I think that a 1 hydra, 2 RBT is still one of the most effective shooting rounds you can have against many targets.

DR can just be FUN now. Seriously. I swear I have more fun saying "well, I deploy here" and they just DON'T get how I'm mowing them down while they run, or how I head over and just line up 5*2 to deny bonuses?

I am about to embark on COC creation next month (something I never thought I'd do). My personal plans are running them with a 30 block of Corsairs and then have 10 COK to flank. They seem to able to take a hit, and truly- the COK part is the optional guys that can break off before combat if something needs to be handled. I'm just sending the Corsairs in to tarpit, and then Impact them (mainly because these would be my first Chariots.)

I'd say we're more Ranged in 8th and have to play up our "you can't hit me, but I can hit you" to counter our S3 stuff.

[Tethlis]

The thing with 8th edition is that, more and more, units are actually intended to do the things they were meant to do.

Dark Riders are now merely light cavalry, great for riding down fleeing units, chasing after light stuff, interfering with movement, but are fairly miscellaneous now.

The Assassin, similarly, can serve as a great one-shot character killer. However, the Manbane/Rending Star configuration hasn't lost any potency at all. Scouting skirmishers, even with the change to their movement and formation, are better in many regards. Greater freedom of deployment and marching-and-shooting means that the manbane/rending star Assassins is perfectly comfortable with a unit of shades, shooting down big threats or charging warmachines on Turn 2. I definitely wouldn't dismiss these guys, monstrously useful.

[[llct]kain]

RBT... haven't changed as much as people say.

Except that they are reduced to two wounds, S3 can now wound T7 and no more randomising between T7 warmachine and crew.
So easy to kill them ...

[Mr. anderson]

RBT... haven't changed as much as people say.

Except that they are reduced to two wounds, S3 can now wound T7 and no more randomising between T7 warmachine and crew.
So easy to kill them ...

True. All you need now is 2 6s and they're dealt with for good. Considering how many 3D6 hit spells with huge range are out there, RBTs are more of a liability than an asset. And with larger units across the board, their impact will be smaller too. Adding to that are the new rules for panic combined with the removal of unit strength. Those three things together meant I needed one fireball at its highest level at an RBT, and they were goners (one died, one panicked - although placing them that close together was likely a result of my opopnent not being aware of the panic test rule change - I only remembered last-minute).

All in all, they're too expensive now and they won't have a place in my army. I don't even have rares in my current list, though when I get round to sticking my hydra together (again... sigh) that might change. At the moment its nearly 50% on core and at least 30% on elites. Rest goes to characters.

[Getwisteerd]

RBT's are not more vulnerable to shooting than they were.

in 7th, you'd hit the crew on 5+ and then wound them on 4+ (with S3)
1/6 of all hits kill a crewman
In 8th, you kill a crewman on a 6+
1/6 of all hits kill a crewman

Against S3 it's the same, against strenghts higher than 3 they are less vulnerable, against strenghts lower than 3 they are more vulnerable.

Also, when they panic they don't run away anymore, it just means thay can't shoot the next turn

They really didn't change that much. Other units did though, especially crossbowmen. The fact that crossbowmen can now shoot in two ranks is what hurts the reaper most.

[Sulla]

I have been really underwhelmed with my crossbowmen. Even with 40+ shots, they can't do enough damage to get enemy units down to 2 ranks before combat. I'm thinking of swapping them out for disrupters like dark riders and harpies.

I may start going avoidance and magic like in the bad old days of 6th again. My opponents are mostly playing warriors, VC and my combat troops are suffering a mauling against them.

[Lord tsunami]

as always i will recommend RXB to be used in units of 30. a char with guiding eye in the unit is magnificent too. When you have so many in the unit, they will all be able to shoot for the first 1-2 turns, and then you reform to a horde for stand and shoot.

against "normal units" they will first have fired 150+ arrows at them and then strike first with 30 attacks with hate. all this before the enemy can do anything. that leaves them with a lot less models than they had to start with, and they usually bounce right off your anvil.

against extreme units, such as chaos, you might have to reform to a 5x6 formation to remain steadfast so you can absorb the charge and have help (hydras any one?) arrive on the flanks. naturally they are not as good against this type of opponents, but usually that is compensated by the fact that chaos generally have small units, and even a few casualties will hamper them.

i am generally against units of 20, cause they are too small to fight in close combat, but too large to throw to the wolves if you have to. 30 on the other hand is an impressive anvil. yes its expensive, but chances are its not going to die. units of 10 are ofc attractive too, since they can be sacraficed if need be, but they dont have any of the old school flanking power left (remember when 10 RXB in the flank would break almost any unit?). 30 ftw