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Executioners or Blackguard 
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The Guiding Eye
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Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm
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Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
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Cien Zaufania wrote:
I wish there was a way to raise it, but that's not gonna happen with Elves, I suppose.

Lore of Metal's +2 Armour Save Augment - coupled with the 5+ ward from the CoB... ;)

Cratz wrote:
2 skull throwers (not sure about the name)

Screaming Skull Catapults... :P

For me, I've always gone with the Black Guard - however in units of 15+ I am now finding that executioners can seriously hold their own where normally the black guard fail - Venkh; you mention saurus and dwarves - I find that against these troops, the S6 of the Executioners really deals the damage whilst the black guard just don't quite cut it - granted you lose a truck load of exes on the way to achieving this - but then so too do the black guard: I'm not gonna bother mathhammering it (never seems to work out for me in practise ;)) but I think, if you optimised both units (CoB nearby and the ability to cast the +2 armour save cloak) I think that executioners would come out on top in a comparison between the 2.

The difference in the 2 units is the unit size - which I think then swings more into the black guards side of things: a smaller unit can be very effective whilst large units of executioners have to be taken if theyre to prove as equally useful. I think that another augment spell from metal also benefits the executioners more than the black guard: the +1 to hit, AP spell - hitting and wounding on 2s with the exes just seems like overkill! It doesnt affect the black guard 'quite' as well as the BG have Warrior elite - thus the +1 to hit isn't really needed in prolonged fights. On the other hand however - the AP benefits the BG more than the Exes.

In summary (sorry for the slightly jumbled post!), executioners DO prove more effective if given a direct comparison with maximum boosts (eg the 2 metal spells and CoB blessing) but for the price of unit, the black guard come out slightly ahead IMHO; if only because they require a lot less baby sitting than the Exes - which really need the boosts to become effective - at which point, they really overtake the BG (assuming the BG had the same boosts).

Hope that makes some sense...

- Beanz :?

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Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:56 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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Between Dark Riders, Shades, and Harpies - not to mention one of the stronger magic phases in the game - we have all the tools we need to deal with warmachines. 8)


Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:09 pm
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Highborn
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put yourself in your opponent's shoes.If you would target his army with artillery and or shooting, which would you shoot? Case and point, your army should have a lot of other threats for your opponent to target. If you field a unit of Blackguard with nothing but core beside it, it's like painting a large bullseye on their foreheads. I'm not saying that it's ideal or even smart to do so but if he is using his Screaming Catapult on you BG then perhaps you should be thankful as they are ITP and being shot at means that the rest of your army can advance of his lines unscathed.

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Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:41 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:13 am
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I'm not a very good general yet, but i've something to add. I play the vampires a lot and found that the Blackguard are a must, simply because of the Immune to PSychology


Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:33 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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That's a good point, but thankfully it's less important than it used to be. Your troops won't run from being outnumbered by Fear causers anymore, and the impact of Fear/Terror causers shouldn't be bad with Leadership 9 or 10 rerollable around. Still, not having to make any roll at all is better than even the highest dice odds.

I've been exceedingly pleased with my Black Guard so far, but often notice that Strength 4 can really, really be lacking. They're more self-sufficient in terms of their high Initiative, stand-alone Stubborn and Immune to Psych, but more vulnerable in the sense that they struggle versus durable opponents.

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Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:47 pm
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Rending Star
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Yep, BG pretty much needs an Armour Piercing banner.

Immune to Psychology also protects against a few nasty spells. :)

Bye
Thanee


Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:44 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Thanee wrote:
Yep, BG pretty much needs an Armour Piercing banner.


I agree in most respects, but I have really like them with the Flaming Banner as well. I know there will be opponents where I will regret not having Banner of Murder, but Flaming Attacks have changed the course of many of my 8th edition games. Knowing that cauldron-buffed Black Guard can go after a Hell Pit Abomination or a unit of Clanrats equally well makes for great versatility, and the option of sacrificing them as a 20-wound tarpit if the battle starts going poorly can be huge. I find the re-roll to hit in every round isn't mentioned very often, but is truly excellent in this edition of drawn-out combats.

That being said, I've been thinking of making the switch to Executioners or Witch Elves for a while now, so clearly there are pros as well as cons ;) .

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Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:15 am
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Black Guard

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 5:22 am
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Post 
Tethlis wrote:
Thanee wrote:
Yep, BG pretty much needs an Armour Piercing banner.


I agree in most respects, but I have really like them with the Flaming Banner as well. I know there will be opponents where I will regret not having Banner of Murder, but Flaming Attacks have changed the course of many of my 8th edition games. Knowing that cauldron-buffed Black Guard can go after a Hell Pit Abomination or a unit of Clanrats equally well makes for great versatility, and the option of sacrificing them as a 20-wound tarpit if the battle starts going poorly can be huge. I find the re-roll to hit in every round isn't mentioned very often, but is truly excellent in this edition of drawn-out combats.

That being said, I've been thinking of making the switch to Executioners or Witch Elves for a while now, so clearly there are pros as well as cons ;) .


Just take a BSB and you can have both banners! Not only are our Halberds on fire, but they are extra pointy! arghhh! ;)


Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:00 am
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 3:47 am
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keep the ap on bg you really want the flaming on a big unit of witches my god they can clear a building.


Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:59 am
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Highborn
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BG with AP Banner will hold a tower all day. 15 str 4 attacks that almost always strike first, rerollable to hit every combat, ITP, Stubborn and +2 hard cover save. If you need to hold that tower badly throw in COB's ward save and its a smooth sailing till the fourth round. Remember that the BRB simply says you CAN deploy a core unit of 20 in the tower. If you own it, put your crossbowmen first in there. The moment they take the building, send your BG for the slaughter. If not simply enter the building on your turn and see why the BG's champion is called a Tower Master :twisted:

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8th Edition

W/D/L
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New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
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Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

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Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig


Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:50 pm
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