Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:36 am



Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
New player with very general questions 
Author Message
Slave on the Altar

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:45 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Graham, NC
Hi. Some friends and I are jumping into WHFB now that 8th edition has rolled around, and we're working on 1000pt armies. I have played a grand total of 1 game of WHFB, and that was probably back around 1998 or so, so I'm pretty much lost. I will be honest with you fine people and admit that right now my primary army looks like it will be Dwarfs. However, before you kick me out, a few years ago I was actually buying stuff to make a Cult of Slaanesh army, so I still have a bunch of Dark Elf stuff in the closet. I'm looking at dusting them off and making another 1000pt army out of them, so I'll finally get some use out of them.

Now, having said all this: I have no idea where to go from this point. I have a pretty big pile of DE warriors, a really large number of Cold One knights (the ones I bought back in the day, plus two boxes of the new ones that my FLGS had on clearance because they got returned), and several Shades and Witch Elves. I also have two Reaper Bolt Throwers. My memory is hazy, but I'm fairly sure I have a Sorceress on lizardback that I can use as the leader. So, now I have some questions:

1) How should I field my warriors? I love the look of them with spear/shield, but would at least one unit with the repeater crossbows be a good idea?

2) Whatever I arm them with, how should I run them? As in, what are good unit sizes for either type of warrior? Am I better off with one big unit, or two smaller units? Stuff like that.

3) My overloaded Specials slot. I'm going to field some Cold One Knights because I love the models (both types); should I just go with tons of those? Or would mixing in either or both of the Shades and Witch Elves be worthwhile?

4) New purchases? I want to keep this to a minimum; however, I love the new Corsair plastics so they're calling to me.

5) Bolt Throwers - worth it at 1000pts? Maybe just one?

Thanks in advance for any help you folks can give me in dusting these guys off and getting them to the table this fall (or at least winter)!

EDITED: the sorc was Cold One mounted, not horseback! my bad!


Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:54 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:13 pm
Posts: 1071
Post 
First off, welcome to Druchii.net. Now to answer your questions....

1-2) Dark Elves definitely work best when our units compliment each other, and it is this synergy that will win you games. Therefore the biggest thing to consider when choosing a unit or character is how it will fit in the context of the rest of your army. What is their role?

That said, warriors are our cheapest and most expendable forces. Therefore they are the unit most likely in our army to benefit from steadfast, as likewise deny it to our opponents. Their low cost also makes them perfect fodder for the sacrificial dagger to boost our magic phase. I've been running around 40 with shields and full command deployed in ranks of 5 to form a strong center that will hold while my flankers prepare to countercharge. I've run them with a lvl 4 Sorceress with the dagger and Lore of Shadow, which means by the time the enemy hits my line they've been thoroughly debuffed and just when they think they can kill off the source of their troubles I use the lore attribute to switch the Sorceress with a fighting character for combat.

RxBs are a bit different. They are our only unit to benefit from the hand weapon/shield bonus. Unit size wise you have 2 options, flexibility or punch. Multiple smaller units of 10 allows you to choose different targets and cover a wider spread of the board with your missile threat range. A single larger unit will however better receive a charge, so if you think they're likely to get into combat you should consider that. Also, a single unit benefits more from buffs from spells, banners, or being a character with the Guiding Eye. Which way you decide to go will depend on your play style, but by all means experiment.

3) I personally have never used COKs, as I play a Khaine theme with nearly all infantry, but many players love them. They are our best armor save unit and pack a punch, but steadfast means they're less likely to break the enemy unless you combine them with another friendly unit with lots of ranks. The new stupidity rules makes them immune to panic, and with Ld 9 and rerolls from the BSB for their stupidity tests they're extremely reliable. Remember also that you need a second rank of 5 to cancel your opponent's ranks when flanking, so you'd need a unit of 10 to do so, and a single casualty will render you unable to negate ranks, so really you'll need a few extra. This makes such a unit a heavy points investment.

As for other specials, I love Witch Elves (Khaine army, remember?). They tear through low T and/or lightly armored troops, especially when buffed by the CoB or spells (or fighting a magically debuffed foe). They are extremely delicate though, the ultimate glass cannon, but for only 10pts/model they're a steal. Shades I have little experience with, but check out the thread in the tactics forum titled "Shades: Am I Missing Something?" for a great discussion on their use.

4) Again, depends on your play style. There are many great choices: Hydra, Execs, Black Guard. A CoB is invaluable for the buffs it provides, especially if your running Witches and/or Execs, as they'll be stubborn. I would definitely advise you get a few spell casters either on foot or on a Dark Pegasus. Cold Ones are poor mount choices for casters.

5) Probably not. It depends on what other fire support you have, but 1/10 of your army cost is too high IMHO and could be better spent elsewhere.

Hope this helps. Good luck and good gaming!

_________________
Lock up your children, shut all windows tight.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.


Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:45 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:34 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
First of all, Welcome to Druchii.net.

Second, a lot of these questions can be viewed through the Tactics forum, more specifically in the DRAICH sticky at the top.

In order of you queries though...

1-2) Crossbowmen are always good. Units of 10 with shields work fine for providing firepower to whittle down opposing units to where you can cut through Steadfast. Warriors are typically best run in a 5 wide scenario with a total of 20-35 models. Ideally, you want at least 1 unit of each for general purpose. That may change as you find what specifically you like about running the Dark Elves.

3) Mixing CoKs with Shades can work well. The Shades deal with Fast Cav and Warmachine threats, while the CoKs provide some necessary hitting power to support the ranks provided by the Warriors.

4) Eventually you may want to look into a Reaper Bolt Thrower or two, or four to help deal with long distance threats and Monsters. They also do wonders against knights.

5) Definitely worth it. 1 at 1000 isn't bad, and it will help with taking out threats. 2 wouldn't hurt either, 12 shots a turn at 48" gives you options to deal with a lot of threats.

Lastly, I'm going to indulge in my common comment for all beginners. This isn't your fault, but is instead GWs for not providing an easy alternative. Don't be offended, I give the same advice to anyone who has asked me.

GET THE MAGE OFF THE COLD ONE! Nothing good comes from a Stupidity-infected Dark Elf sorceress. Plus, you'll want her either on foot to get the "Look Out, Sir" rule from your Crossbowmen and Warriors, or on a Dark Steed/Dark Pegasus for mobility without worrying that she's going to fail her Stupidity test and be unable to cast for a turn.

If she is the previous edition where she is not connected to the Cold One, buy a blister of Dark Rider Command. Take the Dark Rider and put him on the Cold One and you have a Master/Dreadlord. Put the mage on the Dark Steed and you're all set.

Once again, welcome to Druchii.net flintlocklaser. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. We'll answer you as quick as we can.

*edit* ninja-ed

_________________
"Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup"

My motto: Whether I win, lose, or draw the game; I win as long as my opponent has pulled their hair out by the end of the game. :twisted:

Honoring Khaine since March 2003.


Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:58 am
Profile
Slave on the Altar

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:45 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Graham, NC
Post 
Thanks to both of you, that's a lot of help. Apologies for missing the tactics sticky, I'm going to go take a look at that now. And since you both agreed on the lack of utility for the Cold One-mounted sorceress, I think for the time being I'll field her on foot (I'm not sure, but I think the blister I got came with mounted and dismounted versions). Since I already have the 2 Reapers I'll go ahead and put them together and experiment with none, one, or both of them.

Can I ask one more question? At this level, is a minimum-sized Cold One Knight unit even worth fielding? Or would those 135 points be better spent on something else? I think I understand the way the rank bonuses work in this edition, so what Maldor said makes sense - but is there any role for smaller detachments of CoKs at all?

Thanks again for the kind welcome and the helpful advice!


Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:16 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:34 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
The 5 knights works as a flanking unit to support a unit of Warriors engaging an enemy unit to the front. That way you get the hitting power of the knights, minimize the attacks at the knights, and also get the +1 combat resolution for being in the enemy unit's flank.

That way you have some st6 to deal with a monster or knight unit that decides to show up on the table across from you. If nothing else, your opponent may decide the knights are a threat and spend time trying to kill them instead of the rest of your army. Since your knights are Immune to Psych, they don't take panic, fear, or terror tests. Opponents do not like units that shrug off psychology without at least rolling for it, so they will frequently put more effort into killing them than the unit is really worth.

_________________
"Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup"

My motto: Whether I win, lose, or draw the game; I win as long as my opponent has pulled their hair out by the end of the game. :twisted:

Honoring Khaine since March 2003.


Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:24 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:26 am
Posts: 475
Post 
If you're running Cold One Knights, and infantry blocks, see about investing into a Cauldron of Blood. CoK get a lot better kills first round of combat when they have an extra attack.

A little thing for later on, CoK can work well in larger units in correspondingly larger games. 10-12 is ideal. For banners, my personal preference is the Banner of Hag Graef, which allows you to get rerolls against practically everything, go first even against nasty lords, allow the Cold Ones to go first as well, provide Cold One Knights, and occasionally the Cold Ones with rerolls, etc. Very good effect for 35 units on a large unit.

_________________
8th Edition Druchii War Report:
W/D/L: 30/1/15
http://www.freedomstudios.net/boredlife/boards/index.php?sid=18db5076e750fafca78c5ae7ed86bab3
Bored Life: Forum for RPs and general discussion in need of new blood. PM for details.


Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:47 am
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:13 pm
Posts: 1071
Post 
5 COKs is very viable in 1k, I just wanted to point out that they can't negate ranks since that's a change from previous editions. They still inflict a lot of hurt.

_________________
Lock up your children, shut all windows tight.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.


Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:26 am
Profile
Slave on the Altar

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:45 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Graham, NC
Post 
Thanks everyone. I'm going to knock together an actual list tomorrow and post it in the army list forum, but this has really helped me figure out where I'm headed.

Thanks again!


Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:20 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 8 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software