COK unit size?
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
COK unit size?
I rarely ran more than 5 (plus hero) in 7th ed, using them to flank a unit that's held by something else. But a single rank of 5 won't negate steadfast in 8th, so I'm wondering if 10 is better. Or none at all, for that matter. This is, for the most part, for 2,000 pt games.
A missive from the desk of Kylekin, Prince of Nhaeroth, Land of the Setting Sun
8th ed stats (W/L/D)
DE: 1/0/0
DoC: 2/1/0
Empire: 0/1/0
WoC: 0/1/0
8th ed stats (W/L/D)
DE: 1/0/0
DoC: 2/1/0
Empire: 0/1/0
WoC: 0/1/0
- Mr. anderson
- Dark Illusionist
- Posts: 2270
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:25 am
- Location: Dating a Witch elf...
Depends. If you want to make full use of the unit you'll want about 14 plus hero so they can take some casualties and still have a full two ranks attacking when they get into combat. Obviously this size is unfeasible in 2k games, so you might have to go for 6-strong flanking unit.
Although I have to point out, steadfast can only be negated by having more ranks, not by negating rank bonus.
CoK are going to be damage dealers - you engage with one unit in front, negating steadfast, then slam in the flank and tip the balance with the number of kills that CoK can generate.
Although I have to point out, steadfast can only be negated by having more ranks, not by negating rank bonus.
CoK are going to be damage dealers - you engage with one unit in front, negating steadfast, then slam in the flank and tip the balance with the number of kills that CoK can generate.
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.
Why is the 'naked' 5 men CoK unit not a good choice? With 6 wide you have 6" width. This is as large as 8x small infantry base. My point is: it will be very unlikely this 6th knight will add much to the attack and if you put him in the second rank his Co can not add it's attack too.
So I'm thinking 5 CoK is just fine. I wanted to squeeze 12 CoK in 2500 point but found it too expensive and too attractive for cannon and magic target.
So I'm thinking 5 CoK is just fine. I wanted to squeeze 12 CoK in 2500 point but found it too expensive and too attractive for cannon and magic target.
- Mr. anderson
- Dark Illusionist
- Posts: 2270
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:25 am
- Location: Dating a Witch elf...
With 6 wide you have 6" width. This is as large as 8x small infantry base. My point is: it will be very unlikely this 6th knight will add much to the attack and if you put him in the second rank his Co can not add it's attack too.
That is not entirely correct. Believe it or not, you can fit 6 cavalry models to 5 infantry bases. It's pretty simple - 4 25mm bases (which is not exactly 4", by the way) are as wide as 5 20mm bases, meaning you can fit two cavalry bases on either side of the 5 infantry bases, and seeing as models on the corners attack as well, that's 6 models attacking.
So 6 is an idea size to reach combat with, and assuming you will get shot at at least once, I'd add in an extra model.
Having a hero in the unit may also help as he packs a lot of punch and the loss of a single model won't hurt as much. Malus is a great candidate for a small unit as he stops stupidity and packs a hell of a punch against RnF models.
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.
Mr. Anderson wrote:Although I have to point out, steadfast can only be negated by having more ranks, not by negating rank bonus.
Sorry, I got that one a bit backwards. I did, of course, mean that a single rank won't break enemy ranks anymore.
A missive from the desk of Kylekin, Prince of Nhaeroth, Land of the Setting Sun
8th ed stats (W/L/D)
DE: 1/0/0
DoC: 2/1/0
Empire: 0/1/0
WoC: 0/1/0
8th ed stats (W/L/D)
DE: 1/0/0
DoC: 2/1/0
Empire: 0/1/0
WoC: 0/1/0
Since 8th ed, I like to field:
- at 2-2,500 pts. 6 COK. 2 ranks of 3. Unit width is only 3 inches which is narrow enough to sneak and charge between units. You loose 3 mounts attacks but get support attacks from back rank knights.
- at 3,000 pts. 12 COK. 2 ranks of 6. Deadly 12 attacks S6. Imagine a COB blessing the unit with extra attack...
Stupidity is not as risky as in 7th ed, thus we can field larger units for better ratio results/price.
- at 2-2,500 pts. 6 COK. 2 ranks of 3. Unit width is only 3 inches which is narrow enough to sneak and charge between units. You loose 3 mounts attacks but get support attacks from back rank knights.
- at 3,000 pts. 12 COK. 2 ranks of 6. Deadly 12 attacks S6. Imagine a COB blessing the unit with extra attack...
Stupidity is not as risky as in 7th ed, thus we can field larger units for better ratio results/price.
Our club's facebook page:
Fantastique Bataillon de Joinville
Look for French tourneys pics galleries!
Fantastique Bataillon de Joinville
Look for French tourneys pics galleries!
- Minos
- Slave on the Altar
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:30 pm
- Location: Foix, South West of France
At 2,500, I felt in love with 11 CoK + Lord on Cold One, on two ranks.
Naturally very effective on charge, even better with the cauldron ! The front width is not a problem for maneuvering, and don't forget the musician for greater mobility.
It's also very tough and hard to destroy if charged (armor save + lord's attacks).
To protect CoK from shooting, you have 2+ save, and you can use the blessings of the CoB on the firsts turns. Even a cannonball is not so dangerous (you may even use the Ironcurse toy : 5 points to save a mere CoK is worth taking).
I may add that Ld10 (and optional BSB reroll) means that stupidity (THE flaw of the CoK in7th ed, imo) is not a problem anymore.
Yeah, it's a little bit expensive. But in 8th ed, you have to destroy all the unit to get the points. Hard to achieve in a game, especially with two hydras wandering on the table...
Naturally very effective on charge, even better with the cauldron ! The front width is not a problem for maneuvering, and don't forget the musician for greater mobility.
It's also very tough and hard to destroy if charged (armor save + lord's attacks).
To protect CoK from shooting, you have 2+ save, and you can use the blessings of the CoB on the firsts turns. Even a cannonball is not so dangerous (you may even use the Ironcurse toy : 5 points to save a mere CoK is worth taking).
I may add that Ld10 (and optional BSB reroll) means that stupidity (THE flaw of the CoK in7th ed, imo) is not a problem anymore.
Yeah, it's a little bit expensive. But in 8th ed, you have to destroy all the unit to get the points. Hard to achieve in a game, especially with two hydras wandering on the table...
At 2000 points I run at least 2 units of 6 CoKs - usually only with a musician. Each unit is only 170 points, and with high as and ItP they dont give away easy VP.
In addition they hit harder than any 170p unit I know with a cauldron blessing. 12S6 attacks on WS5 with rerolls + cold ones is effective against anything, ranging from infantry, cavalry to monsters.
The benifit of running small units of 6 is that you maximize the damage output per point when using the cauldron.
A unit of 9 with a BSB or dreadlord is really scary and nasty, but it uses up ALOT of points, and will attract all the attention. Small units of CoKs are often overlooked when choosing targets for magic and shooting.
In addition they hit harder than any 170p unit I know with a cauldron blessing. 12S6 attacks on WS5 with rerolls + cold ones is effective against anything, ranging from infantry, cavalry to monsters.
The benifit of running small units of 6 is that you maximize the damage output per point when using the cauldron.
A unit of 9 with a BSB or dreadlord is really scary and nasty, but it uses up ALOT of points, and will attract all the attention. Small units of CoKs are often overlooked when choosing targets for magic and shooting.
-
- Executioner
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:17 am
I have been running 9 + hero (5x2) with Banner of Cold Blood or BSB.
They do A LOT of damage, I also run 2 Hydras so most people are not even trying to spell cast/range them until at least one of the hydras is down.
Anyways, just my recent experiance and it has been verry successful.
Note* give the master the BDE and you will break anything. Especially if you have CoB +1 attack
Expensive, but a real steamroller.
They do A LOT of damage, I also run 2 Hydras so most people are not even trying to spell cast/range them until at least one of the hydras is down.
Anyways, just my recent experiance and it has been verry successful.
Note* give the master the BDE and you will break anything. Especially if you have CoB +1 attack
Expensive, but a real steamroller.
Too Cold
Only Khaine can judge me!
Only Khaine can judge me!
- Philipbright
- Trainee Warrior
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 8:26 pm
I like a unit for 12 CoK with ASF banner!
12x S6 attacks with hate and I6 and ASF along with 6 CO attacks... this can win a combat of smaller units. They can also be in combat for many rounds because their AS. They also break ranks as long as they don't lose 3 models...
But it all depend on the rest of your army! small units for killing power is still good to support big spear blocks to win combat! Although I prefer the CoC in this role with T5 and impact hits.
12x S6 attacks with hate and I6 and ASF along with 6 CO attacks... this can win a combat of smaller units. They can also be in combat for many rounds because their AS. They also break ranks as long as they don't lose 3 models...
But it all depend on the rest of your army! small units for killing power is still good to support big spear blocks to win combat! Although I prefer the CoC in this role with T5 and impact hits.