BSB on manticore

Auere · Post by **Auere** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:52 pm

Have anyone considered the possibility of putting a BSB on a manticore? Here is a briefing on my initial thoughts:

He would have to be "unkillable" to make the deal worthwhile. PoK is nessesary and should be combined with a high armour save. It is important to remember that even if the enemy kills the manticore from under him with shooting, it will give out no VP to the enemy, which means that the manticore can help protect other valuable targets like hydras and chariots who are also good targets for cannons.
As long as the manticore is alive he has a 18' radius of rerolls and can contribute directly to the combat (unlike fx. a cauldron BSB) with +1 SC, his own attacks, the manticores attack and even thunderstomp.

Suggestion for a build:

Master BSB (PoK, Ironcurse Icon, Dragonhelm, lance, ha, sh, SDC, manticore) = 369 points

Worth it?

It would ever only make sense to include it in an army with war hydras, chariots or a dragonlord.

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:18 pm

I too have been pondering on the possibility of a Manticore BSB. Purely for the 18" range, as I've found the extended range for general's leadership to be extremely useful when I tried it out on a dragonlord in a 4000pt game. My priority would be to prevent the beast itself being killed because if it does get killed then that defeats the purpose of the 18" BSB range.

As such, I was thinking along the lines of RoD and perhaps ironcurse icon for magic items then HA, Sh and SDC for the BSB master.

Auere · Post by **Auere** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:16 pm

As such, I was thinking along the lines of RoD and perhaps ironcurse icon for magic items then HA, Sh and SDC for the BSB master.

I would rather use the PoK than RoD. Cannons and stone throwers are really popular in 8th, and they pose a much higher threath to both manticore and rider.

Masked jackal · Post by **Masked jackal** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:32 pm

Auere wrote:
As such, I was thinking along the lines of RoD and perhaps ironcurse icon for magic items then HA, Sh and SDC for the BSB master.

I would rather use the PoK than RoD. Cannons and stone throwers are really popular in 8th, and they pose a much higher threath to both manticore and rider.

Yeah, but PoK doesn't protect the mount at all from stone-throwers and Cannons. I'd say they're about equal, RoD if you don't want basic arrows to get lucky, PoK if you're worried about the BSB more than the manti.

Masamune · Post by **Masamune** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:42 am

RoD + Cauldron ward buff is a good way to protect a mount. There aren't many real options for the keeping the poor creature alive unfortunately.

The extra range is useful but I think the point cost for the manticore makes it far too expensive to pursue this in all but the grandest of battles. Besides, overloading a flank tends to work well a lot of the time anyways.

Ichiyo1821 · Post by **Ichiyo1821** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:54 am

BSB on a Manticore is not really advisable. It's expensive, its a target magnet, It's fragile even with POK and once you lose combat the BSB dies automatically. Manticore+ Master + items+ BSB= too expensive. I retired my Manticore Dreadlord after squeezing as much as I can from him and even then I often used a Dragonlord towards the end of 7th ed.

Valkyre · Post by **Valkyre** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:32 pm

I have been pondering it as well, and will try it out shortly.

the pok is mandatory indeed, who cares the manticore dies, wont give up VP's, and the BSB is not fleeing, so survives anyway. ye just lose 6" range instead.

the manticore is actually only (really) vulneable to warmachines/ shooting, having a nice 5 initiative its quite resistant to all other instant kill spells (unlike EVERY other large target around, griffons excepted).

just wondering thou, do stomp/ thunderstomp also benefit from killing blow rules?

the main thing i am waiting on using it is because i want to field more than 1 sorc, but i think i can also do 2 lvl 3/4 's instead of hero lvl sorcs

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:58 pm

the special rules for (thunder)stomp actually doesn't state anything about special rules unlike breath weapon attacks that actually states you will be using any special rules covered by the attack itself. So I'd stand on the 'yes you can' side even though it makes me frown, since most things that makes me frown actually is true...

Fingol23 · Post by **Fingol23** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:36 pm

I believe the BRB FAQ says that thunderstomp/stomp don't recieve any special rules associated with the model, so technically a Lord of Change or Blootdthirster with flame sword could thunderstomp a guy wearing dragon armour for example (shame they all ride horses though).

Dannyisevil · Post by **Dannyisevil** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:01 pm

Master on manticore seems more risky in 8th edition.

You could try a master on Dark pegasus. Give the master magic item Cloak of hag greaf and it can survive lot of enemy magic/shooting.
Manticore is more powerfull then a pagasus. 150 points difference is big.
150 points more you can have an other master on pegasus :roll:

Post by **Thanee** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:08 pm

Well, the point is, that the Manticore is a large target... thus 18" BSB range.

But I agree, that the Dark Pegasus is a more reasonable choice, especially when considering survivability. That extra Wound for the character is quite nice (ok, you lose the extra three Wounds of the Dark Pegasus, but then again, you cannot kill the mount seperately, which is more of a bonus).

OTOH, if the Manticore dies, and the Master does not, there are no VP gained. You can still move him into a fighting regiment when he loses his mount.

Bye
Thanee

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:54 am

I played one vs VC to good effect. I used him to boost the amount of punch I could get into an enemy unit in a small frontage. I kitted him with the black dragon egg and sword of might; all out offence. Him and a unit of 13 witch elves crumbled a 30 strong horde of ghouls in a single phase.

The biggest problem is that many armies you will face in 8th will either have 4+ war machines or they will entirely be composed of s5+ models (Chaos and dwarves in particular). But it was nice to get him off the shelf and onto the tabletop for a game and not feel like I was gifting my opponent with 300-odd free vps.

A18no · Post by **A18no** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:33 pm

The manticore is really good against any non shooting army. 4wounds is very low for a 200pts beast.

Since we are in the beginning of the 8th, many player have seen easy strong list: magic and shooting.

I've tryed my manti yesterday, really loved it, but the 4wounds was the big problem, and only 4A... Yes you get thunderstomp, but not against byg guys.

A BSB on a manticore is not worth it. I prefer a lord on manticore and a COB BSB...

Asgoth · Post by **Asgoth** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:25 am

I love to use my manticore as a mount for my BSB.

I usually equip him with a standard which gives me +D3 CR
Not so useful in 8th anymore, but i love field my beast.

Against shooty armies it gets trickier to use, but if you are cunning enough you can use manti to give a psychological threat to your enemy and get tasty rear charges later on a game.
Just dont take it out in the open early on the game, do it when your enemy has half a dozen places where to choose from and make him choose, and make it so that what ever he chooses somewhere will hurt and will hurt bad

I all so like the fact that my command area is increased to 18 inches.

Thats my humble opinion.

peace
-asgoth

Svarthofthi · Post by **Svarthofthi** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:48 am

Against some warmachines you don't even use the ballistic skill to hit so the ring of darkness becomes useless in those scenarios. I wouldn't take it versus the Empire or Dwarves. PoK and Ironcurse would be the way to go in those match ups.

Other elves and such, it behooves you to take the RoD to stop all of the ranged shots you'll be taking. Course thats even if you want to take such a liability at that point.