are scouts worth it?

Rizor13 · Post by **Rizor13** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:59 am

Hey guys, As conflict(a 2,500 point grand event) approaches I find myself wondering if scouts are worth it or not. I am looking to field 2 units of 5 shades with additional hand weapons. I don’t have any assassins in the list and was wondering if scouts are worth it. They allow you to put some pressure on opponents war machines and light cav but make it so i lose out on the bonus for going first. Not to mention they are expensive! So what do you guys think?

Dirty Mac · Post by **Dirty Mac** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:20 am

Yes, Yes, Yes always find room for shades. and harpies.

Archon_matt · Post by **Archon_matt** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:56 am

They're nice, but not necessary. Take them if they're going to assist your grand tactical plan or complement your army's abilities.

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:04 am

They have their moments. being able to shoot them up close and personal and still be out of their charge range has it's benefits. Skirmishers can take their time whittling down units while getting closer to shooty units, while units like maneaters and Dwarf rangers can lay down some hurt regardless of what you fight (in the case of the ones that can handle CC, go ahead with parking them 12" away and taunt your foe, taunt them with the scouts).

Dante valentine · Post by **Dante valentine** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:39 pm

It depends on your play style to be fair.

I play 3k games mainly on a standard sized game board so don't, as a rule, contain shades. Mainly because the amount of troops the enemy fields really limits my deployment options. They are not going to be deployed behind their lines so they are forced to be deployed with my army or in the mid-ground.

On the other hand, smaller games they tend to rock - a little bit more space in the enemies deployment zone allows you to really cause a nuisance.

I prefer harpies because not only are they able to cheaper, but the fact they can fly and are almost as good in close combat makes them a winner in my opinion. (now, if only they could shoot!)

Regards

D

Lord tsunami · Post by **Lord tsunami** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:50 pm

we have 3 kinds of fast units. shades, dark riders and harpies. they are all vey good, and i cant really find any reason to exclude eaither. i tend to use one of each (at least), but if you want to replace shades with DRs or harpies (or the other way around) feel free to do so. they act a bit differently, but they can all do warmachine hunting and redirecting 8and other things too).

so, if you ditch the shades, you should take more of either DRs or harpies. there is no wrong choice, except the coice to include neither. they are worth their weight in gold (and they are metal models, and thus quite heavy

)

Post by **Calisson** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:57 pm

Add peggymaster and you have the four "agile" units.

Shades scout. DR vanguard.
As said, both rules are a pain for the opponent if the battlefield is large enough to leave gaps.
Both rules are useless if the battlefield is crowded. In that case, flying troops are much more useful (peggymaster & harpies) - but they don't shoot.

Overall, all "agile" troops are vital to get rid of warmachines early, and to "scavenge" fleeing foes and get the VPs.
They are also very valuable as "speed bump", to redirect a dangerous foe towards the direction you want.

Tmarichards · Post by **Tmarichards** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:05 pm

In my opinion and experience, after the Cauldron units of 10 shades are the best choice in the book. Just, superb.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:47 pm

I used to use shades all the time, but have backed off recently. The main reason is the one cited in the top post -- loss of the possibility of +1 to see who gets first turn. My opponents really never have scouts, and so when I deploy them, I am often giving away the first turn of the game, which I generally want.

Dante valentine · Post by **Dante valentine** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:56 pm

Dalamar put an interesting post up a few weeks ago about using small units of Corsairs with RXB's.

I've been using these in a similar role to shades and although they lack certain abilities that make the shades pretty good, they make up for it in my opinion with their handbows, armor save and cheaper points cost.

Given the fact i have less space on my battlefield, the fact they can't deploy as scouts doesnt really make much of a difference. I find them useful for dealing with things like Goblins, Giants (no Armour is a blessing!).

This is not my tactic and not wanting to repeat Dalamar's post but their strength comes from a small frontage so you can slip them by units, reform and harass in much the same way as shades.

Just food for thought!

D

Assani · Post by **Assani** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:36 pm

Personally I prefer Harpies over Shades, even without the shooting:). They are cheaper, have fast movement and dish out a nice number of attacks. And cheap manoverable redirectors.

Dark reaper · Post by **Dark reaper** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:21 pm

They fill two different roles to be honest. The shades can easily take care of small units on their own and their shooting can even take down small units of knights over a few turns.

Dirty Mac · Post by **Dirty Mac** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:14 am

Shades are great, My high elf opponent hates them. They can be used as re-directors, but that is entirely situational, and usually accidental. I had 2 units on a flank last night and one got charged by a big unit of cav with a wizard. 1st charge failed, and then 2nd was made, but he overran 12" he was basically out of the game. he could cast, but the unit never made it to combat ever again.

Shades are like every other unit, some people like them , some people don't. They are great when they roll big, and bad when they don't. Proxy them with corsairs for 10 games against friends, if you don't like them, after that , don't use them.

I have had a single shade make a 16"" charge against a cannon, break it in combat and have it flee off the board.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:05 pm

Assani wrote:Personally I prefer Harpies over Shades, even without the shooting:). They are cheaper, have fast movement and dish out a nice number of attacks. And cheap manoverable redirectors.

I have been leaning this direction as well. When supported by shadow magic (Withering or Mindrazor in particular), a small unit of Harpies can do surprising things and can do them very cheaply.