The BSB build. Yah it really is trust me, read on.

[Geist]

Alright I see everyone bemoaning how to keep the BSB alive in this edition, and well I have found it.
Master
Hvy Armour, Shield, Lance.
Dark Peggy.
Cloak of Hag Grief
Dawn Stone.
Here is what happens that many seem to over look or maybe just do not know yet.
1 Warmachines now allow armour saves, that means a cannon ball will just bounce off you. 1+ reroll vs shooting, oh look its only -2 to your save and you get to reroll.

2 Peggy adds more than another wound, it makes you immune to KILLING BLOW!!!!

3 You get all the maneuverability of a flyer and you can easily get out of hot spots.

This I believe is the best survivability BSB build one can find.

[Masamune]

PoK + Dragonhelm

[Burizan]

Death Hag + Cauldron of blood

[Sulla]

All 3 are good options. I was thinking about the rerollable 1+ armour + halving ranged strength the other day. It doesn't suit my current need because I play a lot of dwarven and chaos lists that are all s5/t4 or better in cc and he dies very easily to that, but he would be very good vs empire or many elven lists. I probably wouldn't use it as the BSB; not quite survuvable in cc. But I would use him as a hunter.

[Shoyer]

-.- nevermind.

[Valkyre]

survivabily in a BSB does not matter at all, he just should not lose

so maxxed out AS and stubborn (preffered from either a CoB or BG instead of a expensive item) is all that counts.

your wonderfull BSB can shrug off all wounds he wants, if he flees he is dead thou

[Deroth]

survivabily in a BSB does not matter at all, he just should not lose

so maxxed out AS and stubborn (preffered from either a CoB or BG instead of a expensive item) is all that counts.

your wonderfull BSB can shrug off all wounds he wants, if he flees he is dead thou

Saying survivability is not important is missing the main point, true he needs to stick around but if he dies stubborn is not going to make any difference.

Mod's note: please avoid flaming words. Slightly edited.
Calisson.

[Masked jackal]

survivabily in a BSB does not matter at all, he just should not lose

so maxxed out AS and stubborn (preffered from either a CoB or BG instead of a expensive item) is all that counts.

your wonderfull BSB can shrug off all wounds he wants, if he flees he is dead thou

The chance of a unit fleeing with the Battle-standard is rather unlikely, while the chance of him being killed because he has no proper defenses is astronomical. Even champions could probably mush a master in a challenge if he doesn't get some protection.

[Auere]

Obviously a PoK pegasus master BSB is far more surviveable - especially in close combat.

My favorite is: PoK+Soulrender+Peg+mundane armour

He is SO good against forest spirits and etherals alike, and the -1 AS in close combat isnt a big deal. This guy never dies... he createst more than enough static and active combat resolution against anything to never break!

BUT, if you want to use the pendant for the lord level character and only want to hunt light units with the master BSB, the CohG+dawnstone is a very fine build.

... but really... PoK peggy masters are awesome!

[Lasthobbit]

PoK + Dragonhelm is my favorite too but CoHG and Dawnstone could work well. It is a funny idea - say ''no'' to fear of cannons... St5 hit it is not something to worry against. Esp.with reroll.
I suggest that make that guy a BSB it is not a good idea. BSB must be hide from shooting and magic - his place - on foot in the centre of the army OR on CO in COKs unit (banner of +1 LD - to COKs, RoD to BSB).
Imho. But it works.

[Valkyre]

the chance of a lone peg BSB to lose a combat is big enough.

we are not the only ones that can make nearly unkillable chars, all he needs is to be challenged by someone elses unkillable char, both make no wounds and then you lose out on ranks etc.

with make way rule, there is nothing to prevent enemy chars to go to the rear and challange, and nothing for the BSB to hide behind.

2x ld 9 is fine, 2x on a ld 6 is trouble

[Geist]

Alright alright, I get the point you guys are making, he can not do combat solo. Thats fine, and I should not be surprised you guys are being so overly single minded. Because I did not make clear what should have been obvious. This is about keeping the BSB alive and positioning himself so as to best lend the re-rolls as needed. Not to fight, to simply maneuver about the field to be useful. Some of your thoughts and suggestions are good but let me go over the ones I will reply to and addressee why I think they fall short.
1 CoB BSB
This was a thought of mine for a while, but then I saw that it really is a bad BSB choice. A cannon ball can on 1 good roll knife right through the entire thing. The cannon ball against the flyer can not go right through as easily in fact its a damn bit harder 3+ reroll VS 4+ no re-roll. Also the CoB has to take a charge which can be very bad, a ranked up unit will munch a naked CoB.

That leads to next problem, a proper hand to hand defense CoB will cost almost 300 points, 200, + 25, + 50= ouch cost. The flyer comes in at lil over 200. Lastly the big problem with a CoB is its speed. Sure it can move but it can not march can not charge and will not be able to get into the area of re-roll when your on other side of table. You will have units smash through into other units and be stuck or out of position in need of a re-roll. It happens we all know it.

The flyer with his 20 inch move can easily get into position to lend out those rolls, and be rather safe from all mundane shooting and very safe from most spells (I said most so get off your high horse if you find a slew of hidden spells that ignore Armour).

2PoK and Dragon Helm, I agree those are the most awesome defense items to date, and I use them with a rather religious zeal in my 8th armies. But so often be they that I would never put them on my BSB, my combat lord is where those belong. How much more can I say in regards to that? Yes the BSB is very vital but again so is the lord, as he will see the day with his fighting power, so you for sure need one of those, and keeping him alive and wrecking units is why he needs those two items of kit more than anyone else in the army.

3The debate about loosing combat VS being good in combat. Yes they might as well be the same subject matter but mind you these are 2 very different aspects of the same whole. Loosing through combat res is one thing, being able to deal wounds with low chance to save is another. The bsb to my mind in this brave new world has no place in either. His place is ensuring units get re-rolls to leader and break checks that's about it. Charging lil things like warmachine crews is another thing he can do and should be able to do very well at. With the rule of the BSB dies out right if he flees, I truly belive we should re-think putting any bsb into combat. Unless of course you are 1000% sure you will win that combat. Most combats I will not make that bet nor leave to chance my 200+ points goes to waste.

Now before I close this up I am sure you lot will have some suggestions or snide jokes to make about all this and thats fine its the internet. Just bare in mind, just because you can not see it working for you, for the people of the forum, post your reply with civility.

Mod's edit:
Avoid offensive words, please. Last sentence slightly edited.
Calisson.

[Auere]

The advantage of a PoK pegasus BSB over a Cloak pegasus BSB is his versitality! He can charge warmachines but also do well against monsters, characters and regiments.

If you really need the pendant for a combat lord, the build you mentioned is proberbly the second best pegasus master BSB - and its proberbly gonna work out fine!

But it clearly remains the second best..... although that is still pretty damn good :-)

But if I use a peggy BSB, I want him to have the pendant to fully achieve his potential. My lord will have to adjust to him! Since my lord is nearly always a sorceress, I would go for a sacrificial dagger / talisman of preservation build in a large infantry unit.

If on the other hand I bring a cauldron, the pendant of khaleth is free for the taking, and my sorceress or dreadlord will have it.

The BSB is the more important, and he really defines the rest of the army.

[Demetrius]

With the nice new 4+ ward from the BRB for only 45 points, POK has gotten more competition. So for a lord character, 45 points is small enough to give him a killy kit out as well, or if they are a supreme sorceress, sacrificial dagger etc.

This means the POK in some cases is freed up, so can be given to your BSB.

COHG is a good alternative if you don't intend to get into combat, unless against light units only. Not good if you want the BSB in a unit.

[Meteor]

Well if you're making a BSB that doesn't contribute into combat Geist, you might as well take the COB then. At least it does more than just fly around avoiding everything.

COB will hold its own in a combat because only 6 infantry or 3 cavalry or 2 monstrous infantry can attack it at a time, reducing potential harm. If you lose combat it doesn't matter, you're stubborn on a rerollable Ld9.

COB can buff a single unit 24" away every turn

COB causes all khainite to be stubborn within 12", coupled with BSB reroll, khainite won't really be breaking then.

Both the COB and DP BSB are vulnerable to a one hit ko from a cannonball. Neither unit gets a look out sir, a 3+ AS with reroll certainly raises your chances to deflect that cannonball. But it's still a 50% chance. A 4+ ward gives you protection against all sources, even death and metal magic.

There's only about 10pts difference between the two, if the gap was bigger then it's more debatable.

COB has 4 wounds compared to DP BSB of 3 wounds, also T10 compared to T3. The COB essentially has better survivability against cannons and other multi wound war machines.

A DP BSB can hunt war machines, but that's impractical since you're taking the BSB away from your battleline, which defeats the purpose of having a BSB.

A DP BSB can scavenge, and contribute into combat. Probably the only two things a COB BSB can't do. One of which (combat), you'd want to avoid anyway, and you said so yourself.

[Bounce]

Remember Peggies can now go inside units. Stick him in a unit of Spears and he won't have to worry about losing combats then when it looks safe fly out and charge war machines or whatever.

[Darktan]

1 Warmachines now allow armour saves

single shot bolt throwers don't, otherwise, a useful build if you face blackpowder loving empire/dwarves aplenty

[Ichiyo1821]

Well if you're making a BSB that doesn't contribute into combat Geist, you might as well take the COB then. At least it does more than just fly around avoiding everything.

COB will hold its own in a combat because only 6 infantry or 3 cavalry or 2 monstrous infantry can attack it at a time, reducing potential harm. If you lose combat it doesn't matter, you're stubborn on a rerollable Ld9.

COB can buff a single unit 24" away every turn

COB causes all khainite to be stubborn within 12", coupled with BSB reroll, khainite won't really be breaking then.

Both the COB and DP BSB are vulnerable to a one hit ko from a cannonball. Neither unit gets a look out sir, a 3+ AS with reroll certainly raises your chances to deflect that cannonball. But it's still a 50% chance. A 4+ ward gives you protection against all sources, even death and metal magic.

There's only about 10pts difference between the two, if the gap was bigger then it's more debatable.

COB has 4 wounds compared to DP BSB of 3 wounds, also T10 compared to T3. The COB essentially has better survivability against cannons and other multi wound war machines.

A DP BSB can hunt war machines, but that's impractical since you're taking the BSB away from your battleline, which defeats the purpose of having a BSB.

A DP BSB can scavenge, and contribute into combat. Probably the only two things a COB BSB can't do. One of which (combat), you'd want to avoid anyway, and you said so yourself.

I second all of the above. Both BSB's can be versatile as the master can hunt warmachines, with POK can hold and tarpit monsters however as above there are also many ways that it not as effecient as you think. For one you cannot lose combat at all as breaking autokills BSB's. Second, the versatility of the build is hampered in two ways. If you use the Pegasus Master to simply provide you with BSB rerolls then he cannot hunt as effectively. If you use him to hunt warmachines, a smart opponent will deploy his warmachines far from his battlelines (yes this is as common as it gets) and deny your army with a BSB. Let's say you got to fly the BSB behind his lines and got to charge him in turn 2, all is good then but such was the case, a COB BSB could have helped out more by blessing a single unit that turns battles your way. Again a Master or a Pegasus is very very powerful build, turning it to a BSB however imo him less viable.

[Gladerider]

Geist said

Peggy adds more than another wound, it makes you immune to KILLING BLOW!!!!

I just played this weekend and my partner told me that GW errataed that and now they can be killed with KB. Now we looked for it and only found a faq that just beated around the bush on the subject. But he cried about it so i let it go.

I lost my lv 4 on a peggy to KB and it blew!

I just wanted to know if there is any truth to this or if i got ripped off.

Thanks![/quote]

[Dalamar]

Latest FAQ states (paraphrasing)
"If the model without a mount can be KBd, it doesn't matter what you mount them on, they can still be KBd"

[Gladerider]

Thanks Dalamar!

[Xzazzarai]

Obviously a PoK pegasus master BSB is far more surviveable - especially in close combat.

My favorite is: PoK+Soulrender+Peg+mundane armour

He is SO good against forest spirits and etherals alike, and the -1 AS in close combat isnt a big deal. This guy never dies... he createst more than enough static and active combat resolution against anything to never break!

I've tried this one as well. It's a DAMN powerfull build. Thee is no monster he can't handle all by himself.

To all of you who haven't tried this build: DO IT!

@ OP: Seems like a pretty good alternative! I'd love to see the look of my dwarven opponents face when I get a 3+ rerollabel ARMOUR save vs his Cannon!