Needed some advice on this.

I like the idea of pumping out 40 shots (!). And in a unit of 15 it can shoot, take a few wounds and even then take flanks. I also like the idea of AHW and frenzy. Plus I really like the models.

On the other hand, spearmen are cheaper for flanks and crossbows have the range.

I wanted to see what you guys thought about these guys and whether or not they're worth taking.

Thanks

Tom

A unit of 20-30 AHW corsairs with SSS and especially with the COB nearby is one of our best units now, and it is definitively the most fearsome core unit we can get.

RHB corsairs were our best screen for expensive elite infantry, able to get rid of light harassers.
This role is no longer useful because
- our elite units are now usually large enough to withstand a few arrows;
- march-block is no more a problem, as a Ld test negates it;
- the opponent units are now very large, leaving no pts for small harassers with little use.
As a result, our RHB corsairs have lost their main use.
I'm still trying to find them a good job to fulfill as they are my favourite unit.
Possibly still as a screen (so that the unit behind benefits from a hard cover).
Or as an escort for a sorceress (but RXBmen fulfill this role probably better).

I shall be trying a unit of 15 in my army that includes a Cauldron and 2 Sorceress's taking Shadow Lore. It's a small unit that might seem fairly innocuous but with a Cauldron and Frenzy banner plus Mindrazor they have 26 attacks, probably striking first at Strength 8, which is going to make a mess of most units.

I always include a unit of 20 with xhw and the soul shadows std in my army. They are my house to house specialists. Especially useful in the watchtower scenario if I win the deployment.

I wouldn't bother with handbows and I usually don't bother going too big with my unit either because there are a lot of s5 templates out there which rip right through my ranks. I prefer units with a lot of damage output instead. Keep 'em cheapish and expendable in 8th.

soul shadows standard???? or am i just dumb lol.
Yea I'm thinking of switching my corsairs to AHW too, RHB is good...but there's hardly an opportunity to maximise their use before getting stuck into combat.

I believe the Soul Shadows Standard was from sixth edition, possibly even one of the special items from a campaign... I remember putting it on my Dark Riders once upon a time...
It allowed you to auto-rally immediately after fleeing assuming you weren't run down.

Use a couple of units of 10 rhb's on the flanks of your spear units to act as blockers and or additional support they can choose to attack the corsairs in which case they get ss or wait for a gap to try the flanks then the corsairs can flank them, I find that they are one if the most versitile units in the book and suit an aggresive play style, plus they fit my raiding force fluff (don't take cob as it's hard to fit on a raiding ship).

That is correct; it was from the cult of slannesh list to be more specific. Was a great magic banner for CoK, especially when you failed stupidity. However, I believe sulla was referring to the sea serpent standard, since soul shadows no longer exist. Both the soul shadows and sea serpent standards have been abbreviated with the acronym SSS, so it's easy to confuse them.

I played a 2000 pt list last night that included 15 Corsairs. They charged a unit of 10 Empire Knights, got 26 attacks with EHW, Frenzy Banner and Caudron's blessing and I cast Okkam's Mindrazor (3rd IF in 2 rounds = dead Lvl4). Every model in the Empire Unit was killed.

don't have my brb here, (haven't played a 8th ed. game with my druchii yet either) what does okkam Mindrazor do?

You use Ld instead of S for wounding.

Sorry,sea serpent standard . Getting my editions mixed up. Bad habit from abbreviating to 'the frenzy banner' all the time.

Corsairs, even with ahw and SSS are an interesting unit. They are best at nothing, but great all rounders.

Here's why they are the best at nothing:

- Warriors cost less so can give you more troop numbers, with the same basic stats.
- RxBs cost the same, but can provide withering fire with their crossbows, as well as have the same basic stats.
- Witch elves cost the same and give out the same number of attacks (3 each basic) but have poisoned weapons and frenzy inherently (rather than needing a banner to get it). They are also khainite, so gain stubborn from the cauldron of blood if they are within 12" of it.
- Elite units such as blackguard and executioners are very hard hitting and may chew through their opponents more easily.

BUT, they are the best all round troops because:

- They have many more attacks than warriors and crossbowmen.
- They have a very nice armour save (4+/5+), which is far better than witch elves (who have none).
- They are considerably cheaper than blackguard and executioners, and are a common rather than special choice.

This means that they are hard hitting (3 attacks each with SSS), have good protection (4+/5+ saves), are decently priced (less than most special units and the same as RxBs and witch elves) and are core units to boot.

Overall, I like corsairs, particularly vs shooting armies and armies with lots of fear/terror causing creatures. I almost always field them with ahw and SSS, although with the watering down of skirmishers in 8th ed the screening unit of RHB corsairs (who would completely block line of sight to other infantry models behind them) could make a come back in my armies.

About AHW corsairs, I just thought about one use:
The watchtower (scenario #6).
Their natural resistance to shooting (including magic shooting) is enough to make them better building occupants than anyone else.
If they are charged, they can stand & shoot, whatever the distance. Each turn, the opponent who wants to charge gets a Stand & Shoot reaction with 5x2=10 shots (assuming 1 storey building).
In the following melee, there will be some dead corsairs. However, the corsairs are stubborn inside a building, like anyone.
The assaliant is likely to remain at 1" of the building.
Next turn, the corsairs can shoot again with 10 more shots.


In every other scenario, the best use I can think for RHB corsairs is to assist a charge into a melee in order to provide the slavery rule. For that, the best would be to run them in conga line, in order to let the other units get the max lineage and deal the max damage.
When not in melee, they are good as a screen: the enemy will have to choose between this light innocuous unit to waste his shooting, or to shoot at a more precious unit behind, but with hard cover.
Their RHB is great to get rid of march-blockers but nowadays there are no more march blocker.

That's some good ideas Calisson.

One other thought occurs to me. RHB Corsairs can be given a magic standard, whereas RxBs cannot. That means you can make them frenzied from the SSS (and thus ITP).

Being ITP is really handy for a unit that you don't want to flee. Nothing is more irritating than having a unit of screeners who get shot and flee back through their own army in turn 1. Similarly, in the watchtower scenario (mentioned by Calisson), they can be relied on to not flee due to panic.

a horde of 40 corsairs with RHB,s and a character with the guiding eye. and for thos pesky regenerating enemy, give the flame causing standard,

march up fire your 40 shots, next turn you'll probably get charged so you stand and shoot and use the guiding eye.

ive tried this a few times now, seems to work ok.

a great way to deplete those HE sword masters or white lions before they get to you.

best effort... a unit of 25 swordmasters whittled down to 8

Im trying to get my head around the corsaris/swordmaster conflict. How u get 40 shots of ? But if you did, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 5 saves ( heavy armor and shield of safry ) = 5 kills. On stand and shoot with -1 to hit you get 2-3 kills and then get hit by 17-18 models 7 wide, receiving 22 atacks w. reroll hitting on 3+ making 18 hits str 5 = 15 wounds per round. In 2-3 rounds he brakes you. My experience with sword master`s is to hit them from longer range with crossbows, RBT`s in combination with magic if possible. In cc they are a meatgrinder.

Two ranks of ten (20 total), each firing two shots each = 40 shots.

I played last night and my little unit of 15 Corsairs with EHW, Frenzy banner and extra attack from the Cauldron combo charged a block of 50 men-at-arms with a Hydra. After 2 rounds of combat there were 2 men-at-arms left for the loss of 3 Corsairs and no wounds off the Hydra. I had also used shadow magic to drop my opponent's Toughness by 1. Forget the bows I say, those Corsairs can dish out the pain with a tonne of attacks in CC.

50-men@arms = 250-270 pts.

1 hydra + SSS corsairs + CoB + LoS sorceress = 750 pts.

The outcome of that fight should be pretty inevitable, but yes frenzied corsairs can really dish out some damage - especially with a little help

Corsairs are definitely viable, I actually love all the DE core troop choices so I'm biased. But as said above, there are many things which can compliment the corsair unit so well, I like to run my CoK unit on the flank of the corsairs to insure my opponent is run between the 3d6 pursue and slaver rule. I often don't run any rare choices because I like to field a lot of the core troops.

In the past, I have used small units with handbows as a ghetto detachment unit. Worked well, and their special rule is really nice when you can make use of it. Definitely viable now, but I'd likely give them xhw (though it depends on their role in the list) but for the same points, I can get WE and carve a much bigger hole in the enemy's army.

However, Witch Elves are not Core, and have no save, while the Corsairs have a basic 5+ in combat, and 4+ against everything else.

yea, WE does the job better for the same points, actually, cheaper since AHW Corsairs require the SSS to match WE in the number of attacks. Only difference being the Corsairs have a 5+ AS compared to a 5+ Ward at best for WE. Why better? Because WE has poisoned attacks, higher chance of wounding for the same number of attacks.

if you use your RHB corsairs right you should actually get about 80 shots off at a unit

move up and shoot ( 40 shots ) leaves you close enough to be charged next turn for another 40 shots.

using the guiding eye is a matter of preference. I tend to use it when i get charged.