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Debuff and shoot to kill - will it work? 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:04 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Netherlands
My thoughts behind the theme

The other day I was playing against TK and I took shadow magic for the first time (never took it in 7th edition). But boy did I like it. I used it in a list without any real shooting (exept 2x 14 RHB corsairs).

I really loved the debuff advantage I got from shadow magic. I used it in combination with dark magic, to prevent the TK from shooting to much.

After the battle I got an idea "What if I took mainly shooting, and debuff the enemy units?".

It will be a 2000pt army.

I'm not quite sure on this part. I was thinking about something along the line as:

The biggest part of my army should be able to fire shots

- 2 units of rx-bowmen around 20-25 large (so they can support in combat when nessesary)
- 2-4 RBT (love these, depending on points left 2 to 4)
- 2 units of shades (don't know yet how large I should field them)

I'd only like to field 1 elite combat unit that needs to hold ground.

- Large Black Guard unit with AP banner

As support I was thinking about mayb 5 naked cold ones

I need magic for this list and perhaps 1 combat character.

- Sorceress level 2 or 4? with Dark magic and Tome of Furion + dragon egg
- Sorceress level 2 with darkstar cloack
- combat master or lord that survives

I was hoping that you players out there had more experience with 8th edition to give their thoughts for my theme list.

...) ) ) ) ) ..r..(°°)

Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:52 pm
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3722
Location: Baltimore
I can't comment on this as much as some other players, but a few thoughts:

1 - Shooting - magic armies can be quite effective for DE in terms of winning games, but generally are really quite dull for both you and your opponent. Either he reaches you and bulldozes through your troops, in which case its pretty much auto win to him, or he doesn't and you manage to cut him to pieces with your archery and magic (even if - as in your case - you are using magic more to debuff him and make the archery hurt than to do direct damage), in which case its pretty much auto win to you. It's a good way to go, but only if you like your games to be decided by rolling lots of dice.

2 - The problem with relying on magic for an army in 8th ed is:
a) magic remains quite fickle. If you roll a double one in your magic phase then you're not realistically going to be casting much that turn.
b) casters are easier to kill than ever, including through specific character killing spells, stepping up enabling enemy units to always direct attacks towards your characters if you want
c) a magic defence heavy opponent can really shut your magic phase down. Try playing against an O&G player who has the staff of sneaky stealing, the banner of +1 dispel dice per rank bonus and the staff of sorcery on a level 4: he gets +4 dispel dice each turn, whereas you get -1, and he's dispelling with a +5 advantage. You're going to struggle to get anything off.
All of these things - and others - mean that it's not a good idea to rely on magic as a game winner. Yes, it can be very useful, but the rest of your army should function fully and completely without it - that way any added advantage you gain is a useful bonus, but if it doesn't work out then you're not crippled as a result.

"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:27 pm
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:49 pm
Posts: 263
I combine it with lots of low strength multi-attack units, SSS corsairs, witch elves. This gives a use of every spell in the lore, and allows you some extra versatility.

I base my shooting on equal amounts of shades, dark riders and rxbs, to make sure I dominate movement, along with harpies for warmachines. Then SSS corsairs, witches and execs to clean up. Supported by shadow and CoB.

This makes for quite and effective army :)

Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:28 pm
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Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 182
Location: Sunny Brisbane
I take a lvl 2 and lvl 4, both with shadow to make sure I get the spells I need - and pretty much every spell in the lore is useful.

In a 2000pt list I have 1 x 15 RXBs which are designed to take advantage of the Withering - their damage output can be doubled or tripled on an weekened opponent.

I also take 18 Corsairs for Mindrazor which makes them a killing machine and will try to Enfeeble the opponent to minimise damage from return attacks.

Pendulum is a fabulous character sniping spell with a (on average) longer range than most of the Death lore, particularly if the character has been debuffed by Miasma.

Both girls often take Miasma to debuff initiative for Pit. One of the subtle benefits of Shadow is that there are 2 remains in play spells in the deck. If not dispelled when cast, they suck power dice from your opponents magic phase as he tries to dispell them in his turn.

UNSEEN LERKER MAGAZINE - It'll make you happier than a Corsair in a Bretonnian orphanage.

Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:38 pm

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 2:13 am
Posts: 518
I would recommend a level 4 caster and a level 2 caster in your army. For the lores, shadow is pretty solid and I might even try fire for your level two. There are a couple spells which are handy, namely Flaming Sword for extra wounding power on your RXB or the Cage spell to keep the enemy at a distance longer. The other spells in the lore are alright too for doing ranged damage. Both those and your ranged firepower work well combined with Wither from shadow, or by slowing their move from Miasma.

All of these combined should give you extra time to shooting and additional shooting power when you do shoot.

As for magic items for the sorceresses I'm always a fan of the sacrificial dagger in a large block of spearmen and that isn't too expensive( You can even put the Standard of Discipline here for a Ld 10 Supreme Sorceress general). It could help out delaying the enemy by giving them another target instead of only the BG. The Tome of Furion I would put on the level two, unless you are dead set on getting almost all the spells from a single lore. I would really recommend Guiding Eye on a character in a unit of RxB, rerolling missed shots could really help on a stand and shoot or if you miss a lot in a single turn. Lifetaker also fits well with the theme but isn't completely necessary.

You really should include a BSB and here is a good setup for him. Put him in a unit of RXB, and give him the Armor of Darkness and Guiding Eye. Also give him a pair of repeating HANDBOWS. This will enable your unit of crossbows to all stand and shoot in short range as the maximum range of the handbow is only 8". Combined with rerolling misses, your unit of 25 crossbows will shoot 50 times and hit on average about 27 times instead of 16! Much better odds and more more deadly.

In general you want to slow him down as much as possible to ensure lots of shooting time so shades, harpies, and dark riders will be useful as well using magic to slow him down(Miasma)

Hope all that helps!

Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:21 am
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Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Antwerp
You don't have to go 'all ranged' for the debuffs to take effect.

-T is also great in CC
-S is ONLY handy in CC
-WS is ONLY handy in CC

Shadow is great, and it works great with CC and Shooting.

A few battles ago I killed 6 Chosen with my crossbowfire because a -2T spell.
(he should have dispelled that)

Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:05 am
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