Corsairs?
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
I run either 20 corsairs with AHW and SSS as a combat unit in either 5X4 or 7X3 or in units of 10 at 5X2 with RHBs to use as a screen. The thing that makes the AHW+SSS corsair unit so useful is its fantastic versatility. The greatest benefit of this unit is the attacks it puts out, and that it is abit more durable and Core compared to witch elves. The number of attacks allow them to scythe down low T units, and it can be buffed/enemy debuffed to slice through heavy enemies. More attacks=more potential wounds, and this unit when used in combination with some hexes and augments/blessings will scythe through most things quite easily, I think the reason I like this unit so much is that it can make the most out of buffs/debuffs, efficiency gets the best results.
Veni, Vidi, Voro!!!
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
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Afterimagedan
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Yes more attacks do equal more potential wounds but so do many more shooting attacks.
A unit with AHW and SSS (7-7-6) will have 28 attacks in combat against 30 Empire Halberdiers. The will hit about 19 and hatred will give them about 6 more equaling 25. 12.5 will wound and they will save about 2 of them. Kill amount - 10.5 dead. They attack back with 12 attacks, hit 6, wound 4 and kill about 4. Let's say you killed 11 and got the charge. You have 14 CR and they have 2 CR from ranks, killed 4, have a banner. You beat them by 7 and they have to test to run but they are steadfast and have an ok chance not to run. Next turn, Next turn you will win by 2 or three and they will probably flee.
A unit with RHB and SSS (7-7-6) will be able to move up and shoot 28 shots hitting 14 and wounding 7. They will save 1 and you will have killed 6 so far. Next turn they will charge you and you will stand and shoot hitting 9.3324 and wounding 4-5 (closer to 5) so not you have a total of 11 dead. They are down to 19. In combat you will have 21 attacks; hitting about 16 with hatred and then wounding 8, they will save about 1 and you will have killed 7 more. Thats a total of 18 dead so far. They will attack back and kill about 4 corsairs. Their combat res is 1 rank (assuming they are in 6x5), 4 kills, banner, charge = 7. You will have 1 rank (now 7x7x3), killed 7, have a banner = 9. You beat them by 2 and they will test on their low leadership and most likely run because they do not have steadfast. Next turn, if they didn't run, you will kill them down to about 3 men left, smash them in combat and they will most definitely run. You will have beat them by 8-9.
Reviewing these numbers, I think that 20 RHB Corsairs are very viable; I would argue better in this situation and probably many others. They will do increasingly better against smaller units and very small units like knights or fast cav. The only thing I think they will do worse on (that I can think of) would be fighting unsupported against massive horde units such as 40 Khorne Marauders or giant units of Goblins.
Sorry about the text wall, hope this was accurate and helps.
A unit with AHW and SSS (7-7-6) will have 28 attacks in combat against 30 Empire Halberdiers. The will hit about 19 and hatred will give them about 6 more equaling 25. 12.5 will wound and they will save about 2 of them. Kill amount - 10.5 dead. They attack back with 12 attacks, hit 6, wound 4 and kill about 4. Let's say you killed 11 and got the charge. You have 14 CR and they have 2 CR from ranks, killed 4, have a banner. You beat them by 7 and they have to test to run but they are steadfast and have an ok chance not to run. Next turn, Next turn you will win by 2 or three and they will probably flee.
A unit with RHB and SSS (7-7-6) will be able to move up and shoot 28 shots hitting 14 and wounding 7. They will save 1 and you will have killed 6 so far. Next turn they will charge you and you will stand and shoot hitting 9.3324 and wounding 4-5 (closer to 5) so not you have a total of 11 dead. They are down to 19. In combat you will have 21 attacks; hitting about 16 with hatred and then wounding 8, they will save about 1 and you will have killed 7 more. Thats a total of 18 dead so far. They will attack back and kill about 4 corsairs. Their combat res is 1 rank (assuming they are in 6x5), 4 kills, banner, charge = 7. You will have 1 rank (now 7x7x3), killed 7, have a banner = 9. You beat them by 2 and they will test on their low leadership and most likely run because they do not have steadfast. Next turn, if they didn't run, you will kill them down to about 3 men left, smash them in combat and they will most definitely run. You will have beat them by 8-9.
Reviewing these numbers, I think that 20 RHB Corsairs are very viable; I would argue better in this situation and probably many others. They will do increasingly better against smaller units and very small units like knights or fast cav. The only thing I think they will do worse on (that I can think of) would be fighting unsupported against massive horde units such as 40 Khorne Marauders or giant units of Goblins.
Sorry about the text wall, hope this was accurate and helps.
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afterimagedan wrote:Yes more attacks do equal more potential wounds but so do many more shooting attacks.
A unit with AHW and SSS (7-7-6) will have 28 attacks in combat against 30 Empire Halberdiers. The will hit about 19 and hatred will give them about 6 more equaling 25. 12.5 will wound and they will save about 2 of them. Kill amount - 10.5 dead. They attack back with 12 attacks, hit 6, wound 4 and kill about 4. Let's say you killed 11 and got the charge. You have 14 CR and they have 2 CR from ranks, killed 4, have a banner. You beat them by 7 and they have to test to run but they are steadfast and have an ok chance not to run. Next turn, Next turn you will win by 2 or three and they will probably flee.
A unit with RHB and SSS (7-7-6) will be able to move up and shoot 28 shots hitting 14 and wounding 7. They will save 1 and you will have killed 6 so far. Next turn they will charge you and you will stand and shoot hitting 9.3324 and wounding 4-5 (closer to 5) so not you have a total of 11 dead. They are down to 19. In combat you will have 21 attacks; hitting about 16 with hatred and then wounding 8, they will save about 1 and you will have killed 7 more. Thats a total of 18 dead so far. They will attack back and kill about 4 corsairs. Their combat res is 1 rank (assuming they are in 6x5), 4 kills, banner, charge = 7. You will have 1 rank (now 7x7x3), killed 7, have a banner = 9. You beat them by 2 and they will test on their low leadership and most likely run because they do not have steadfast. Next turn, if they didn't run, you will kill them down to about 3 men left, smash them in combat and they will most definitely run. You will have beat them by 8-9.
Reviewing these numbers, I think that 20 RHB Corsairs are very viable; I would argue better in this situation and probably many others. They will do increasingly better against smaller units and very small units like knights or fast cav. The only thing I think they will do worse on (that I can think of) would be fighting unsupported against massive horde units such as 40 Khorne Marauders or giant units of Goblins.
Sorry about the text wall, hope this was accurate and helps.
All very valid points but the reason I prefer corsairs in units of 20 to have AHW is because it is a prime combat unit, and so the extra attacks they have in combat benefit them more with combat-specific buffs. Mainly the CoB's killing blow and okkam's mindrazor, RHB corsairs will have one less attack each with which to use the effects of these buffs. I like the corsairs so much because they have so many CC attacks which maximises the effectiveness of CC Buffs increasing killing potential, this is why I favour them over many units because they can use these buffs to their fullest extent, yes RHB corsairs get to shoot, but Okkam's Mindrazor and the KB blessing won't affect shooting, so for a combat unit I take AHW, and leave RHBs for smaller hunter/bait/screening/sacrificial units of corsairs. I am not saying that units of 20 corsairs with RHBs are not effective, just that the way I use them, 20 AHW corsairs are more effective.
Veni, Vidi, Voro!!!
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
I am with Auere & Malus99 on this one.
I agree that this is the way to go: 18-21 corsairs with AHW and SSS, in ranks of 6 or 7, with mindrazor / KB-blessing + possible dreadlord/master with them that benefit from frenzy and give higher strpunch.
10 strong with musician and repeater hand bow can possibly work but considering their short range and no armor piercing, I believe 10 repeater crossbowmen work better against most armies (same cost).
Where the corsairs possibly can do more damage is versus armies with few units (so you can maneuver around and get many shots).
However, because of the free wheel when charging, this will be hard to do against most armies.
Also, corsairs are a bit too expensive to use as a redirect unit. Harpies are better for that ...
Setomidor: 10 corsair musician handbow units could be considered in shooty list playing with restrictions on repeater crossbows (like with new ETC).
I agree that this is the way to go: 18-21 corsairs with AHW and SSS, in ranks of 6 or 7, with mindrazor / KB-blessing + possible dreadlord/master with them that benefit from frenzy and give higher strpunch.
10 strong with musician and repeater hand bow can possibly work but considering their short range and no armor piercing, I believe 10 repeater crossbowmen work better against most armies (same cost).
Where the corsairs possibly can do more damage is versus armies with few units (so you can maneuver around and get many shots).
However, because of the free wheel when charging, this will be hard to do against most armies.
Also, corsairs are a bit too expensive to use as a redirect unit. Harpies are better for that ...
Setomidor: 10 corsair musician handbow units could be considered in shooty list playing with restrictions on repeater crossbows (like with new ETC).