Thoughts CoK

Coryl99 · Post by **Coryl99** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:47 am

I was wondering what you all thought of the idea to just use 5 Cok as a flanking force that will hit very hard. Is this a good idea with no command or models really? I think they would be perfect for a hammer unit just have to be smart with them.. or should i go all out and by 5 more upgrade to musician and champ and put a bsb with them? But to me thats a huge point sink.. thoughts?

Masamune · Post by **Masamune** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:36 am

A group of 5 or 6 works but I would take a musician on them. It's not an expensive upgrade and can sure come in handy. The other command models I wouldn't worry about. Typically the champion and banner are best used for the items they can take, or on a larger unit, or if there is a character in the unit.

This is probably the most common use of the CoK so of course it's viable. The other main use is a big block of 10-12 or even more but that becomes quite expensive and is not as modular with a multitude of army lists due to the nature of the support structure you want to go along with it (CoB, hero, etc.).

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:02 am

I think it's more viable if you have a Cauldron of Blood as that extra attack at the right time can make a small unit a much bigger threat.

Eglard · Post by **Eglard** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:27 am

It works on it's own too, but upgrading one to champion and giving him the potion of foolhardiness is quite nice, as is standard of slaughter if you have the points.

The avenger · Post by **The avenger** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:14 am

Lately I've been using a unit of 6 with musican, banner and the flaming banner, supported by a CoB. Quite nice when you're going to take down other hydras, hellpits etc

Auere · Post by **Auere** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:40 am

I use two units of 6 with a musician each supported by a cauldron. They win me all my games...

Deadly_druchii · Post by **Deadly_druchii** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:12 pm

What is the flaming banner called? Been looking for it for ages now

The avenger · Post by **The avenger** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:45 pm

Deadly_Druchii wrote:What is the flaming banner called? Been looking for it for ages now

Banner of theE Eternal flame, or something like that

10pts in the BRB

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:51 pm

They're a great purchase I think. One other nice feature is that the more casualties they take, the more maneuverable they become, which means that a depleted unit of 2 Cold One Knights can easily slip into a backline to kill warmachines or maneuver through the lines to go after an enemy caster.

Coryl99 · Post by **Coryl99** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:19 pm

You all said have a musician? I can't see why because what will you need the quick reform for? Please help me if im missing something.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:51 pm

CoryL99 wrote:You all said have a musician? I can't see why because what will you need the quick reform for? Please help me if im missing something.

In 8th they get the quick reform, but otherwise its good for moral checks as they are going to be losing 25% most of the time when they do take casualties, and for winning drawn combats.

I used 2 units of 5 for a long time in 7th, but was always very unlucky with them. I ended up running a single unit of 6 to 7 with just a muso. They are a great firepower sink, can run down the other guy's flankers for the most part, and whatever left is still a threat in the enemy rear until they are dead or fleeing.

They are not however reliable in any way shape or form.

Coryl99 · Post by **Coryl99** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:55 pm

How does the musician effect leadership?? sorry i dont have my rule book friend does.. I know about the free reform but with 5 knights is that ever necessary?

Masamune · Post by **Masamune** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:41 am

You get +1Ld when attempting to rally (from fleeing). So CoK would go up to Ld10, increasing your chances by 1/12 or ~8.3%. EDIT: Not counting BSB possibility of course.

They can break a tied combat in your favour, so it's a mini banner that doesn't turn over any VP or auto die if it flees.

They can swift reform and there are times when it is better to do this than wheeling around.

Overall, you're getting a lot of value for your 8pts and to me it would be harder to justify not taking this option.

Auere · Post by **Auere** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:01 am

In 8th they get the quick reform, but otherwise its good for moral checks as they are going to be losing 25% most of the time when they do take casualties, and for winning drawn combats.

But Cold one Knights are immune to psycology by the new rules for stupidity. That is ALWAYS - not only when they go stupid!

Which means that the rally bonus only applies when they have broken from combat.

Apart from that, being able to quick reform and the draw special abilities of the musician are proberbly enough to justify 8 points.

Thenick18 · Post by **Thenick18** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:37 am

COK are my favorite unit, when I don't feel like being very tactical, and just want to push models across the board, COB, Hydra banner BSB and potion of foolhardyness on the champ plus SoS is the way to go hahaha.

Pjeos · Post by **Pjeos** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:45 pm

Hi there,

Have you thought of giving Hag Graef (to put a dent in HE and allow COs to reroll against I2 or lower such as Lizzies, Dwarves, undead) or Banner of Murder (to take on Chaos Knights and the likes) and The Other Trickster's Shard (for character/BSB killing) or Potion of Foolhardiness.

I've playtested them and they can get to kill some really tough characters, such as Dwarf/WoC BSB.

Masamune · Post by **Masamune** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:55 pm

Not all leadership tests are counted as panic tests. For example rally tests are not panic tests, which is when the musician comes into play. CoK are not immune to break tests either. So there will be situations where the musician is useful, not sure exactly what you were ruling out saying musician doesn't help in this aspect.

Babnik · Post by **Babnik** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:49 pm

Units of 5-6 COK were always my fast hammer in 7th but since 8th ed rules, I prefer to field them in much larger units. Like 12 with FC and Hag Graef banner.
The reason of this change is VP. It is very difficult for your opponent to get VP since 50% damages don't give VP anymore. Furthermore with support attacks rules, you get a devastating 13 attacks S6 and 6 strengh 4. Against undead, Lizzies or dwarves, even your CO can reroll their attacks thanks to new ASF rules!

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:07 am

Auere wrote:But Cold one Knights are immune to psycology by the new rules for stupidity. That is ALWAYS - not only when they go stupid!

That is exactly what the rules say though, there is no change from stupidity in the last edition, its just so badly worded it appears to read backwards to what it means.

Mod's EDIT:
This discussion is legitimate, but it is a rules discussion, not a tactics one.
Please discuss Stupidity & ITP in the following thread, and ONLY THERE:

COK: always ITP, or only after failing stupid test?

Calisson.

Coryl99 · Post by **Coryl99** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:13 pm

Okay You all make excellent points im still confused on the =1 to rally, is it only used for rallying or break tests also?

Masamune · Post by **Masamune** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:59 pm

Just to rally, not for break tests.

Babnik · Post by **Babnik** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:34 pm

By the way, I fielded my 12 COK with ASF in my last 3 games and I won all of them. They shined against undeads and dwarves. And to hammered by daemons but, as I had 1 left, no VP for the daemons.
On the other hand, I got flanked by a 30 bloodletters unit just because an ITP unit can not flee!