new dark elf player advice

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

Post Reply
garthag
Slave (off the Altar)
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:32 pm

new dark elf player advice

Post by garthag »

Hi, I have just recently joined the forum in order to help with the army list making . My previous armies have been OKand O&G. I was llooking to have an army that did not just have horde units. It was hoping it would have little or none witch elves and a few units of witches and many executioners. And help with basic combos and tips would also be greatly appreciate. Thanks.
User avatar
Phierlihy
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 2089
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:19 am

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by Phierlihy »

What models do you have to test with?
Proud supporter of druchii.net
phierlihy@druchii.net
User avatar
Amboadine
Miscast into the Warp
Miscast into the Warp
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:07 am
Location: Investigating Mantica

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by Amboadine »

Hello and welcome firstly. As phierlihy has already pointed out it would be helpful to know what if any models you have.
You could look to go all cavalry. Dark riders, warlocks and cold one knights. Look into a concept called MSU if you want something different to hordes. Multiple small units running around the board. Plenty of good tactically advice on how to use this method of play and it is something elves excel at.
garthag
Slave (off the Altar)
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by garthag »

Yeah, at the moment i do not have any dark elf stuff at all to test with. I like the sound of some cavalry but not a whole army full. I was thinking to get corsairs then some special. but im more confused about how much of each unit to make things work. And a general idea of what a solid 1000 point list could look like. One character i am interested in is Lokhir Fellheart due to his shenanigans. Thanks for the welcome :)
User avatar
Saintofm
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1755
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:28 am
Location: California

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by Saintofm »

O the top of my head, I can think of this: Corsairs work well in hordes due to havig 2 hand weapons, but another strategy i to have a handfull of smaller units with handbow. I have yet to use handbows so I go with 2 handweapons.


Crossbows can befeilded i one of 2 ways: A unit or two of at least 20 all tooled up, or about 3 units that are bare minimum. The theory is maximising shots. With the former you have a mass of shooting so you are bound to get a panic attack sometime, while the other splits it us so not all your eggs are in one basket.

Get a set of are rath magnets when you get the warshrine/cauldron so you can switch things up when you want to use the other.

Spearmen: I'm a big fan of all or nothing, so go big or use another unit.

Shades are great, espesialy with 2 had epaons for dealing with shooty uits and war machines. Great weapos makes them better for dwarves.

Of the 8 Lores of magic and dark magic: fire is the easiest, beasts and death some of the hardest to cast. Metal only really weorks against high armor foes 9/10 times. Life is one of the more over powered lores and a supreme sorceress with that and the sacrificial dagger can pose a problem.

Kights really need 2 rks, maybe more, to have a chance.

Chariots do well if they are teamed up with other units or with lots of their own.

Bolt throwers need to be as many as you can, so at least 3.

Witch ELves and Sisters of Slaughter are what you call a glass cannon and hammer units. Glass canon is a phrase meaning powerful but fragile, and this come from an overall lack of armor. This also goes in with their hammer unit, or a unit that focuses on offence to the point defense suffers, as once they get in close combat they can bring on the hurt. Give witch elves the eternal flame banner and watch trolls, hellpit abominations and anything else that has regeneration or flammable go up in smoke.

Elves as a general rule do not have a lot of armor, so killing enemy range troops will be a must.

Hydreas are more for anti hord and moderatly armored foes, and K beasts are for heavily armored foes and monstes. Both do even better if teamed up with another unit to support.
Who needs sanity? I have a Hydra
Askador
Noble
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by Askador »

Saintofm wrote:O the top of my head, I can think of this: Corsairs work well in hordes due to havig 2 hand weapons, but another strategy i to have a handfull of smaller units with handbow. I have yet to use handbows so I go with 2 handweapons.


Crossbows can befeilded i one of 2 ways: A unit or two of at least 20 all tooled up, or about 3 units that are bare minimum. The theory is maximising shots. With the former you have a mass of shooting so you are bound to get a panic attack sometime, while the other splits it us so not all your eggs are in one basket.

Get a set of are rath magnets when you get the warshrine/cauldron so you can switch things up when you want to use the other.

Spearmen: I'm a big fan of all or nothing, so go big or use another unit.

Shades are great, espesialy with 2 had epaons for dealing with shooty uits and war machines. Great weapos makes them better for dwarves.

Of the 8 Lores of magic and dark magic: fire is the easiest, beasts and death some of the hardest to cast. Metal only really weorks against high armor foes 9/10 times. Life is one of the more over powered lores and a supreme sorceress with that and the sacrificial dagger can pose a problem.

Kights really need 2 rks, maybe more, to have a chance.

Chariots do well if they are teamed up with other units or with lots of their own.

Bolt throwers need to be as many as you can, so at least 3.

Witch ELves and Sisters of Slaughter are what you call a glass cannon and hammer units. Glass canon is a phrase meaning powerful but fragile, and this come from an overall lack of armor. This also goes in with their hammer unit, or a unit that focuses on offence to the point defense suffers, as once they get in close combat they can bring on the hurt. Give witch elves the eternal flame banner and watch trolls, hellpit abominations and anything else that has regeneration or flammable go up in smoke.

Elves as a general rule do not have a lot of armor, so killing enemy range troops will be a must.

Hydreas are more for anti hord and moderatly armored foes, and K beasts are for heavily armored foes and monstes. Both do even better if teamed up with another unit to support.


Its really interesting how your playstyle is so much different to mine.

I have another opinion on almost everything you say here. Not that i think you are wrong. You just play totally different to me :)
User avatar
direweasel
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:58 pm
Location: Terre Haute, IN, USA

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by direweasel »

Given that you said you don't own any dark elf models yet, let me give you some tips on prioritizing your purchases:

I'd start with witch elves. You sounded unsure of those, but I had trouble understanding exactly what you meant. If your home play location isn't picky about having only GW models, look around, because there are TONS of places where you can get non-GW witch elves cheaply. But hey, it's your army, so if you don't want em, you don't want em. It is possible to do well with dark elves and not field a single witch elf. Corsairs are also nice core, and if you like them better, go ahead. But I'd focus on Dark Riders and Xbowmen before Corsairs if I were starting from scratch. I'd suggest not bothering with spearmen or swordsmen, in all honesty. At least not until you've played some.

For specials, get bolt throwers and executioners first and foremost. Then some shades. Chariots and Cold One Knights are nice but situational. Black Guard are nice but expensive for what they do. So if you're prioritizing, I'd get bolt throwers, executioners, and shades. The rest can wait.

For rare troops, focus on warlocks. If you're really creative and good with the magnet thing, you can double up and get two units out of your dark riders - just switch torso/heads out and you have what you need. If not, you still need both. I would argue that dark elves have the TWO best light cavalry units in the game. To not use either or both would be wasting some of our best resources. And going heavy on cavalry would definitely be getting away from the "horde units" you expressed interest in not replicating.

I would skip on monsters until later unless you really want a "centerpiece" model, in which case, the old beastmaster on Manticore figure serves that role well, as does Morathi.

So, in summary. If I were starting a dark elf army from scratch tomorrow, here's how I'd do it:

Non-GW Witch Elves (If you don't want witch elves, corsairs will do as well)
2 boxes of crossbowmen
4 boxes of dark riders/warlocks (so you could make 10 of each, or better yet do the magnet thing!!)
4 bolt throwers
2 boxes of executioners
a dozen or so shades
and then some heroes and lords of your choosing. You mentioned the Fellheart model - even if you choose not to use him as a special character, he's a great model for a hero or lord, especially if you stick him in a corsair unit!

I just thought this might be a different take on what others have been saying, approaching the question from a different angle. You were talking about making a 1000 point army. Take the models listed above and see if those make army lists that interest you. If not, adjust accordingly. :)
Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how glorious your triumphs, nor how miserable your failures, there will always be at least one billion people in China who don't give a damn.

Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
Askador
Noble
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by Askador »

direweasel wrote:Given that you said you don't own any dark elf models yet, let me give you some tips on prioritizing your purchases:

I'd start with witch elves. You sounded unsure of those, but I had trouble understanding exactly what you meant. If your home play location isn't picky about having only GW models, look around, because there are TONS of places where you can get non-GW witch elves cheaply. But hey, it's your army, so if you don't want em, you don't want em. It is possible to do well with dark elves and not field a single witch elf. Corsairs are also nice core, and if you like them better, go ahead. But I'd focus on Dark Riders and Xbowmen before Corsairs if I were starting from scratch. I'd suggest not bothering with spearmen or swordsmen, in all honesty. At least not until you've played some.

For specials, get bolt throwers and executioners first and foremost. Then some shades. Chariots and Cold One Knights are nice but situational. Black Guard are nice but expensive for what they do. So if you're prioritizing, I'd get bolt throwers, executioners, and shades. The rest can wait.

For rare troops, focus on warlocks. If you're really creative and good with the magnet thing, you can double up and get two units out of your dark riders - just switch torso/heads out and you have what you need. If not, you still need both. I would argue that dark elves have the TWO best light cavalry units in the game. To not use either or both would be wasting some of our best resources. And going heavy on cavalry would definitely be getting away from the "horde units" you expressed interest in not replicating.

I would skip on monsters until later unless you really want a "centerpiece" model, in which case, the old beastmaster on Manticore figure serves that role well, as does Morathi.

So, in summary. If I were starting a dark elf army from scratch tomorrow, here's how I'd do it:

Non-GW Witch Elves (If you don't want witch elves, corsairs will do as well)
2 boxes of crossbowmen
4 boxes of dark riders/warlocks (so you could make 10 of each, or better yet do the magnet thing!!)
4 bolt throwers
2 boxes of executioners
a dozen or so shades
and then some heroes and lords of your choosing. You mentioned the Fellheart model - even if you choose not to use him as a special character, he's a great model for a hero or lord, especially if you stick him in a corsair unit!

I just thought this might be a different take on what others have been saying, approaching the question from a different angle. You were talking about making a 1000 point army. Take the models listed above and see if those make army lists that interest you. If not, adjust accordingly. :)


I agree with that.

I personaly would add 2 Pegasus Models with Riders. (Gameszone has a nice model for that since the Morathi Model is sooo ugly.. or Build one yourselve with the Breton Pegasi.

And i would add a CoB. If you are new to Darkelves the CoB with witches is the best thing you can do for filling the Core after 2 units of Dark Riders.
They are relative easy to play as soon you figure out how Frenzy works. They beat almost every other unit in melee and they have more defensive skills then Execs. or Black guard. 5++ with MR 1 is better then AS 5+


If i would start tomorrow i would send the GW Seller to hell if he wants me to buy the Army box and get:

30 Witches (the GW ones since i love the look)
10 Warloks
3 Breton Pegasi
15 Dark Riders
1 CoB
20 Darkshards
2 Reapers
10 Shades
1 Cold one Chariot (maybe 2)
1 Dreadlord on foot
1 Mage on Horse
1 Mage on foot
20 Executeners (maybe 30)
Or
20 Blackguards
Maybe 10 Cold one Knights (nice to get riders for the Pegasi also)

If im low on money i would skip some shades, 5 riders, Chariots, Cold ones or Execs.
Last edited by Askador on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
direweasel
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:58 pm
Location: Terre Haute, IN, USA

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by direweasel »

Yeah, I would normally recommend a Cauldron too, Askador, but he said he was trying to get away from horde units, and especially didn't sound convinced about witch elves and was leaning more towards corsairs. If you're not going to have many witches, the Cauldron is less of a necessity for sure.

Otherwise, yeah totally.
Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how glorious your triumphs, nor how miserable your failures, there will always be at least one billion people in China who don't give a damn.

Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
Askador
Noble
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: new dark elf player advice

Post by Askador »

direweasel wrote:Yeah, I would normally recommend a Cauldron too, Askador, but he said he was trying to get away from horde units, and especially didn't sound convinced about witch elves and was leaning more towards corsairs. If you're not going to have many witches, the Cauldron is less of a necessity for sure.

Otherwise, yeah totally.


ok thats true.
If i would not play witches i would just take Darkshards and Riders in core. Corsairs is a unit im not really see as a very useful unit. But thats a matter of taste i guess. They never did anything in my games.
Post Reply