D.R.A.I.C.H Stomping Ogres v8.0b
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:37 am
Presentation
I been playing Fantasy for a little over 2 years old, with roughly 70 games as an Ogre to this day. I also played a fait bit of Dark Elves (around 20 games), so my knowledge is not so bad on both side.
This is the base of my D.R.A.I.C.H against Ogre. I'm hoping to edit it as i get comments and think of new things to add.
D.R.A.I.C.H How to kill a big mean Ogre v8.0b
Know Your enemy.
With 8th edition, Ogres got a whole lot harder to kill. They now fight in 2 ranks (with 2nd ranks having 3 attacks each), and their buff are now a whole different story.
Strenght
- Everything except Gnoblar, have Toughness 4 or better.
- Everything except Gnoblar, have Strenght 4 or better.
- Everything except Gnoblar, cause fear.
- Core units have 3 wounds, and 3 attacks. They only need 3 to get ranks, and can have their character safely tucked in 2nd rank if they wish to.
- Caster knows all spells from their lore, and all of them are cast on 3+. They are RiP, but play completely differently (we'll see it later)
- movement of 6” for everyone except Gnoblar.
- Bull charge (single impact hits/models) as soon as they charge from over 6”, at the strenght of the bulls + the number of ranks behind him.
Weakness
- Low armour. The best they have is 5+ on ironguts or the Bull upgraded with ironfist and light armour.
- Low leadership. A mixt of 7 and 8. General is 9, and is most likely followed closely by his BSB. So they are much harder to scare away than in 7th ed.
- Expensive units (except Gnoblar).
- Many units are now obsolete (Hunter, Yethzee, Maneater)
- Giant is not stubbord
How to beat them
Dominate Magic Phase
It's not about killing them with magic, its about avoiding them turning into god with buffs. They have 3 spell you MUST avoid staying on the table at all cost ;
#1 Bloodgruel
The spell allow the caster to regain 1 wound on a roll of 2+. It's important to note that their caster sometimes takes damage from their spell, so the best way to stop a Butcher from casting, is to lower his health.
#2 Trollguts
The spell gives 4+ Regeneration and MR2 to the unit.
#3 Toothcracker.
The spell gives +1 Toughness to the whole unit, and makes them Stubborn.
#4 BullGorger
The spells gives +1 Strenght to the whole unit, if the Butcher pass a Strenght test.
How to avoid those spell from stacking? There's two ways.
#1 Dispel. Either when they cast, or the following turn (they can be dispelled on a 7 in any following phase, so dont discard those dispel dice too fast!).
#2 Killing the caster. It sound hard, but i believe with Death, we got plenty of spell to do just that.
The magic spell against ogres are obviously Purple Sun and Pit of shades. All their core unit is I2, so they are not too hard to whipe with those spell.
Don't let them get any bonus on the charge
Ogre have one ability that can really turn the tide of a combat around, its called Bull charge. As soon as a unit of 3 or more Ogres charge from over 6", they get a special free attack called bull charge. Its basically a S4 hit/Bulls in front rank, with a +1 Strenght for each bulls behind him. So a unit of 9 bulls (3x3), would get 3 S7 autohit, before the combat even start. With the Stomp, it add up quickly.
Don't underestimate the power of the scraplauncher
Scraplauncher are one of the most feared chariot in the game. With a large template S3 Killing blow, they can quickly whipe a unit off the field.
Don't underestimate the power of the Gorger
Gorger are specialist at warmachine killer, unit locker. They are unbreakable, have Killing Blow, and T5. They can come in turn 2, but cant charge the turn they come in. Always keep them in mind when deploying if your ennemy have them, as they can lock some precious unit for 2 or 3 round of combat, until they finally get killed.
Gnoblar are not too small to be ignored
A unit of Gnoblar, as useless as they can be, can be a true tarpit when inside a General inspiring presence. They can be used as bunker to guard an important piece (like scraplauncher), and can be steadfast for a long long time.
How to build a list to beat them
I'm particulary against building an army to beat another army specifically, but there are a few things that will do wonders against Ogres.
Mage
2 choice are no brainer against ogre ; Death and Shadow. Here's a quick rundown of the usefullnes of the spell.
Death :
2 - Caress of Laniph : good to target Butcher (lvl2) or Slaughtermaster (lvl4), as they are S4, and the most wounds they suffer, the less they'll cast.
3 - Soulblight : A unit down to T3 S3 is alot easier to manage.
4 - Doom and Darkness : Especially useful if your opponent runs a horde. If you beat it, rolling 6 is alot harder than 9, even with a BSB nearby.
5 - Fate of Bjuna : alot harder to beat caster with that (they're Toughness 5), but when you only need one or two wound to kill it, it can be a game breaker.
6- Purple sun of WTF : that spell can easily whipe half of an Ogre army.
Shadow :
0 - Melkoth's mystifying Miasma : lowering their movmeent by D3 can really help you manage their advance. Lowering their ini or their WS isnt as important, unless you want them to hit you on 5s instead of 4s.
2 - Enfeebling Foe : They are only S4 (except the Ironguts who have a Greatweapon).
3 - Withering : lowering toughness by D3 is like turning Ogre into Gnoblar. It can be amazingly good, and since they hit last most of the time, it could even prevent a unit from charging you, fearing the S3 of our army.
4 - Penumbral Pendulum : anything that does Ini test is good, but since Ogre have to be killed for a cannonball to continue, i wouldnt bet too much money on that spell.
5 - Pit of WTF : since its scatter it is a bit risky, but it can whipe out a unit in one single spell.
6 - Okkam's Mindrazor : when all else fails, wound on 2s!
As you can see, those two magic are pretty much the anti-Ogres. And the best thing is that they also work against other army.
Lords/Heroes
One build that works pretty well against Ogre Tyrant (or even the standard RnF), is this :
OgreBlade , Armour of Darkness and Pendant of Khaeleth.
With that, you are S5, still hitting first most of the times, and are pretty much impossible to kill (against a standard bull (S4 AP), you get 3+ AS, then a 4- Wardsave). There's many other solid build, But since Ogres Tyrant can be pretty much unkillable, you have to hope for staying alive.
3 "type" of tyrant you could face :
(1) - the untouchable tyrant. WS7 -2 to hit him, T6, 5+ Wardsave
(2) - the unwoundable tyrant. WS6 T6, reroll to wound, 4+ Armor 5+ Wardsave
(3) - the Thundermace tyrant. Can decide to use a Small template in close combat, S4(8). Can be devastating, but its a one trick poney.
A Cauldron can do a decent job, but there's very little it can do to help us against Ogres, except giving us a 5+ Ward to survive Scraplauncher shot.
Core
Dark Rider can be especially good against ogre, as they cannont be stomped, and are fast enough to "go around" and get a proper charge. A rear/side charge can do wonder against big unit of ogres.
I'd personally avoid using Crossbowman, as their damage would most likely not be impressive against T4 army, unless you decide to couple it with a Shadow Caster, and can cast Withering on your opponent incoming units.
Corsairs vs Warrior could be debatable. I would personally avoid using Corsairs, as their 3 extra pts (when comparing with Warrior and shield) is imho too much for just an extra attacks. Large unit of Warrior could hold their own against Ogres, and with the help of magic, they could beat just about anything.
Harpy would do very badly against Ogre. Since everything but gnoblar cause fear, they'd have some real hard time hitting anything.
Special
Witch Elf, if they can survive up to close combat, can be devastating against Ogre, for the simple fact that they have poison. Small unit could be considered, to avoid attracting the wrath of the Scraplauncher.
Executioner. Their extra Strenght can be a blessing, but hitting after the Bulls could really decrease their attacks.
BlackGuard. Another obvious choice, they should too be kept small, or well protected.
Cold One Knight are at risk against Ogres. Since everything will at least gives a -2 AS, they might die faster than hoped.
Rare
Everything there is golden.
Hydra's breath could go through a unit of Ogres with ease.
Reaper Bolt thrower are better used in grapeshot, and should target the scraplauncher ASAP. They also must not think twice before turning around and gunning any Gorger incoming.
2 of each should do a pretty good job at dealing with the Ogres.
I been playing Fantasy for a little over 2 years old, with roughly 70 games as an Ogre to this day. I also played a fait bit of Dark Elves (around 20 games), so my knowledge is not so bad on both side.
This is the base of my D.R.A.I.C.H against Ogre. I'm hoping to edit it as i get comments and think of new things to add.
D.R.A.I.C.H How to kill a big mean Ogre v8.0b
Know Your enemy.
With 8th edition, Ogres got a whole lot harder to kill. They now fight in 2 ranks (with 2nd ranks having 3 attacks each), and their buff are now a whole different story.
Strenght
- Everything except Gnoblar, have Toughness 4 or better.
- Everything except Gnoblar, have Strenght 4 or better.
- Everything except Gnoblar, cause fear.
- Core units have 3 wounds, and 3 attacks. They only need 3 to get ranks, and can have their character safely tucked in 2nd rank if they wish to.
- Caster knows all spells from their lore, and all of them are cast on 3+. They are RiP, but play completely differently (we'll see it later)
- movement of 6” for everyone except Gnoblar.
- Bull charge (single impact hits/models) as soon as they charge from over 6”, at the strenght of the bulls + the number of ranks behind him.
Weakness
- Low armour. The best they have is 5+ on ironguts or the Bull upgraded with ironfist and light armour.
- Low leadership. A mixt of 7 and 8. General is 9, and is most likely followed closely by his BSB. So they are much harder to scare away than in 7th ed.
- Expensive units (except Gnoblar).
- Many units are now obsolete (Hunter, Yethzee, Maneater)
- Giant is not stubbord
How to beat them
Dominate Magic Phase
It's not about killing them with magic, its about avoiding them turning into god with buffs. They have 3 spell you MUST avoid staying on the table at all cost ;
#1 Bloodgruel
The spell allow the caster to regain 1 wound on a roll of 2+. It's important to note that their caster sometimes takes damage from their spell, so the best way to stop a Butcher from casting, is to lower his health.
#2 Trollguts
The spell gives 4+ Regeneration and MR2 to the unit.
#3 Toothcracker.
The spell gives +1 Toughness to the whole unit, and makes them Stubborn.
#4 BullGorger
The spells gives +1 Strenght to the whole unit, if the Butcher pass a Strenght test.
How to avoid those spell from stacking? There's two ways.
#1 Dispel. Either when they cast, or the following turn (they can be dispelled on a 7 in any following phase, so dont discard those dispel dice too fast!).
#2 Killing the caster. It sound hard, but i believe with Death, we got plenty of spell to do just that.
The magic spell against ogres are obviously Purple Sun and Pit of shades. All their core unit is I2, so they are not too hard to whipe with those spell.
Don't let them get any bonus on the charge
Ogre have one ability that can really turn the tide of a combat around, its called Bull charge. As soon as a unit of 3 or more Ogres charge from over 6", they get a special free attack called bull charge. Its basically a S4 hit/Bulls in front rank, with a +1 Strenght for each bulls behind him. So a unit of 9 bulls (3x3), would get 3 S7 autohit, before the combat even start. With the Stomp, it add up quickly.
Don't underestimate the power of the scraplauncher
Scraplauncher are one of the most feared chariot in the game. With a large template S3 Killing blow, they can quickly whipe a unit off the field.
Don't underestimate the power of the Gorger
Gorger are specialist at warmachine killer, unit locker. They are unbreakable, have Killing Blow, and T5. They can come in turn 2, but cant charge the turn they come in. Always keep them in mind when deploying if your ennemy have them, as they can lock some precious unit for 2 or 3 round of combat, until they finally get killed.
Gnoblar are not too small to be ignored
A unit of Gnoblar, as useless as they can be, can be a true tarpit when inside a General inspiring presence. They can be used as bunker to guard an important piece (like scraplauncher), and can be steadfast for a long long time.
How to build a list to beat them
I'm particulary against building an army to beat another army specifically, but there are a few things that will do wonders against Ogres.
Mage
2 choice are no brainer against ogre ; Death and Shadow. Here's a quick rundown of the usefullnes of the spell.
Death :
2 - Caress of Laniph : good to target Butcher (lvl2) or Slaughtermaster (lvl4), as they are S4, and the most wounds they suffer, the less they'll cast.
3 - Soulblight : A unit down to T3 S3 is alot easier to manage.
4 - Doom and Darkness : Especially useful if your opponent runs a horde. If you beat it, rolling 6 is alot harder than 9, even with a BSB nearby.
5 - Fate of Bjuna : alot harder to beat caster with that (they're Toughness 5), but when you only need one or two wound to kill it, it can be a game breaker.
6- Purple sun of WTF : that spell can easily whipe half of an Ogre army.
Shadow :
0 - Melkoth's mystifying Miasma : lowering their movmeent by D3 can really help you manage their advance. Lowering their ini or their WS isnt as important, unless you want them to hit you on 5s instead of 4s.
2 - Enfeebling Foe : They are only S4 (except the Ironguts who have a Greatweapon).
3 - Withering : lowering toughness by D3 is like turning Ogre into Gnoblar. It can be amazingly good, and since they hit last most of the time, it could even prevent a unit from charging you, fearing the S3 of our army.
4 - Penumbral Pendulum : anything that does Ini test is good, but since Ogre have to be killed for a cannonball to continue, i wouldnt bet too much money on that spell.
5 - Pit of WTF : since its scatter it is a bit risky, but it can whipe out a unit in one single spell.
6 - Okkam's Mindrazor : when all else fails, wound on 2s!
As you can see, those two magic are pretty much the anti-Ogres. And the best thing is that they also work against other army.
Lords/Heroes
One build that works pretty well against Ogre Tyrant (or even the standard RnF), is this :
OgreBlade , Armour of Darkness and Pendant of Khaeleth.
With that, you are S5, still hitting first most of the times, and are pretty much impossible to kill (against a standard bull (S4 AP), you get 3+ AS, then a 4- Wardsave). There's many other solid build, But since Ogres Tyrant can be pretty much unkillable, you have to hope for staying alive.
3 "type" of tyrant you could face :
(1) - the untouchable tyrant. WS7 -2 to hit him, T6, 5+ Wardsave
(2) - the unwoundable tyrant. WS6 T6, reroll to wound, 4+ Armor 5+ Wardsave
(3) - the Thundermace tyrant. Can decide to use a Small template in close combat, S4(8). Can be devastating, but its a one trick poney.
A Cauldron can do a decent job, but there's very little it can do to help us against Ogres, except giving us a 5+ Ward to survive Scraplauncher shot.
Core
Dark Rider can be especially good against ogre, as they cannont be stomped, and are fast enough to "go around" and get a proper charge. A rear/side charge can do wonder against big unit of ogres.
I'd personally avoid using Crossbowman, as their damage would most likely not be impressive against T4 army, unless you decide to couple it with a Shadow Caster, and can cast Withering on your opponent incoming units.
Corsairs vs Warrior could be debatable. I would personally avoid using Corsairs, as their 3 extra pts (when comparing with Warrior and shield) is imho too much for just an extra attacks. Large unit of Warrior could hold their own against Ogres, and with the help of magic, they could beat just about anything.
Harpy would do very badly against Ogre. Since everything but gnoblar cause fear, they'd have some real hard time hitting anything.
Special
Witch Elf, if they can survive up to close combat, can be devastating against Ogre, for the simple fact that they have poison. Small unit could be considered, to avoid attracting the wrath of the Scraplauncher.
Executioner. Their extra Strenght can be a blessing, but hitting after the Bulls could really decrease their attacks.
BlackGuard. Another obvious choice, they should too be kept small, or well protected.
Cold One Knight are at risk against Ogres. Since everything will at least gives a -2 AS, they might die faster than hoped.
Rare
Everything there is golden.
Hydra's breath could go through a unit of Ogres with ease.
Reaper Bolt thrower are better used in grapeshot, and should target the scraplauncher ASAP. They also must not think twice before turning around and gunning any Gorger incoming.
2 of each should do a pretty good job at dealing with the Ogres.