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Hellpit Abomination - How do you deal with them? 
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Executioner
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:14 am
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Hi there,

I've been playing a lot against Skaven lately and I see them so much in tourneys that I think it is really afecting me XD.

How do you deal with HPAs? Do you send them PoK? In that case, do you find he survives too often? Do you use flamming attacks hammers? In that case, which ones do you use? CoKs? WEs? Do you rely on magic?

So far, I got to drop all my Harpies to include a Rending Stars Assassin that, coupled with Warriors w/ BoEF did pretty well take care of HPAs, but I'm missing Harpies so much...and the rest of my list is pretty much fixed and I'm not willing to change very much of it.

Shall I rely on my PoK to tarpit the HPA and therefore drop the Assassin to recover the Harpies? I think that doing so would help the overall performance of my list but I'm afraid that if I drop the Assassin I will eventually miss not having him to knock wounds off a HPA...maybe I am actually becoming a bit paranoic about it. But I hate the feeling of missing having a unit...XD

So, any ideas against a HPA? Is PoK enough? If so, I'll end up dropping the Assassin and recovering my beloved Harpies. If PoK is not, what does work for you? Maybe I can get to change my list a bit.

See ya


Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:50 pm
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Shade
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I would use a unit of ten CoK with flaming banner plus a really tooled up dreadlord with PoK and caledors bane plus potion of strength.

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Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:03 pm
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Executioner

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:11 pm
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Send in the hydra!

Thaw what I do. It's like clash of the titans



































Works out well and puts a cool fight scene in your head.


Last edited by Blondshade on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:04 pm
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Shade
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Location: attacking Ulthuan
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What's with the uber long gap?

Edit: a hydra would get smashed by a hell pit abomination.

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Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:05 pm
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Executioner
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Malekii wrote:
I would use a unit of ten CoK with flaming banner plus a really tooled up dreadlord with PoK and caledors bane plus potion of strength.

Believe it or not, this looks tremendously satirical -_-...Are you serious about using a 350 points unit plus a Lord to take on 1 HPA?


Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:22 pm
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Shade
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
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I agree with PjEOs. I have the same problem in my all comers list. We certainly can make a unit that takes it down, however it wont fit nicely against other armies and/or unit we are facing.

Oh yeah, and the hydra is really a bad choise against HPA I think as well.

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Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:35 pm
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Assassin

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:29 pm
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i usually run a unit of witch elves with a flame banner because AP goes on my BG.

but this can easily take down the occasional hell pit, debuffing its strength also helps to kill it, but i find using flaming poison attacks (and a hag with manbane) usually does the trick. and its a great unit. Other then that hell pits are incredibly fickly , i mean a hydra can kill it, once i killed one without taking a wound, but on other ocassions he competely destroys the hydra. thats what you get by random attacks, with random hits.

worst of all i once lost my sorcerres of shadow bunker, abandonned ship and went to the large unit of crossbowmen, i had 1 hydra left and needed to get through the abom in order to restore my battlelines and retake te losing battle. I debuff the abom lowering its strenth and thougness, and kill it easily, to easily. it dies before i use my breath attack, ressurects OUT OF COMBAT without the debuffs since he's a diffrent unit and comes parrallell with my hydra with 5 wounds. in his turn he fly's it in my lost unit of crossbowmen with lvl 4 which can't stand and shoot and is demolished. Game over.


Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:36 pm
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Black Guard
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flash29 wrote:
i usually run a unit of witch elves with a flame banner because AP goes on my BG.


This.

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Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:24 pm
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Highborn
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I personally just shoot it to death with Shadow Magic and RXB fire. If I really need to I'd just breathe flame on it with the Hydra/ charge it after it has taken a couple of wounds.

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Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:58 am
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Shade
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PjEOs wrote:
Malekii wrote:
I would use a unit of ten CoK with flaming banner plus a really tooled up dreadlord with PoK and caledors bane plus potion of strength.

Believe it or not, this looks tremendously satirical -_-...Are you serious about using a 350 points unit plus a Lord to take on 1 HPA?


this is my monster smashing hammer.

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Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:40 am
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:15 pm
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Your monster smashing hammer, seriously? A unit of five cok with flaming and cauldron buffing kills most monsters on the game on the charge, your unit is just ridiciulous amounts of overkill.

I also use witches with flaming to kill them most of the time (and tried it in practise were it worked very smoothly).


Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:36 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Send in your hydra. Before you do your regular attacks, use your flaming breathweapon (goes on initiative), to take away his regeneration. Good chance to take him out.


Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:51 pm
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Shade
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HPA have higher iniiative then the hydra. For me at least, the hydra has never taken a HPA out (either it die before it can make its attacks, or it has so low wounds left and therefore low breathe attack str.). It dosent mean a hydra cant take a HPA put, I just mean you can not count on your hydra doing the job.

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Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:07 pm
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Beastmaster

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:57 pm
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I use my 6 knights with flamingbanner and +1A from the cauldrion to take out the Abombs. Works nice :)


Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:28 pm
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Executioner

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:11 pm
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A hydra statistically should win do tha math and check it out. Which is kinda cool because ours costs less!


Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:05 pm
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Shade
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I believe you are incorrect Blondeshade. Hydras ability to win is based on two "assumptions". The HPA cant get the charge, and the HPA cant roll 1-2 on the attack chart. If any of those two happens its flameattack and perhaps to hit would be severely reduced.

The specific mathhammer dosnet really matter. Even if we say its a 50/50 fight, it is a dumb way to "count" on you hydra to do the job I think. It's certainly better then to arm WE or CoK with flamingbanner and so on, for that increased chance of winning.

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Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:57 pm
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Executioner
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An Hydra an't take on a HPA. Just because Hydra is I2 and HPA is I3 and the HPA will get the charge and dish out D6 S6 hits + special attacks. Most likely, the Hydra will take 2-3 wounds and very easily 4 or even die. So the flamming breath will therefore be S3/2/1 and do nothing serious.

So no, Hydras are not a solid option. Specially since they are so brilliant at tarpiting Plague Furnace...

See ya


Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:13 pm
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Executioner

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What about 2 hydras. Do you guys take 2? Would you do a double charge?


Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:36 pm
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Executioner
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Jeez, two Hidras?. And what's more, two Hydras to take on a single HPA?

I must believe there must be more practical options. I think that WEs can be nice but they lack speed, mho. And can be easily avoided by a HPA.

I'm currently going for a 5 strong CoK unit with flamming attacks and Potion of Strength. I tested it today and it worked, so easy...


Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:57 pm
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Shade
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PjEOs, would u choose to add that unit in a tournament just for that HPA I wonder? And btw, the potion of str cost 30 point, so you must use a master or lord in your unit then?

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Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:15 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:42 pm
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i despise hell pits.

. making them flee is funny.
.A rear charge with the pendant does that perfectly. even if the pendant is on a wizard (risky but hilarious when it works). they are only ld 8. and tend to be away from the bsb. Pendant bsb does the job marvelously even in the front but this is one of the situations were he can die very quickly.
. Magic can help a lot shadow( withering ) death (soul blight) fire(almost all spells) A hexed hellpit can slain by most troops.
. As for hydras against skaven there are so may better targets and your hydras can cause so much havoc they are better kept safely away from hell pits so they can wreck limitless amounts of damage on hordes of incompetent skaven infantry. i feel warm inside when i think about how many models fit under a st 5 flame template. :D


Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:16 pm
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Executioner

Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 10:18 pm
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MyrkrDreki wrote:
PjEOs, would u choose to add that unit in a tournament just for that HPA I wonder? And btw, the potion of str cost 30 point, so you must use a master or lord in your unit then?


Common mistake to make, as the BRB Potion of Strength is 20 pts, people tend to forget we have to use the points cost listed in our own AB.


Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:33 pm
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Cold One Knight
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I agree we have much better and secure options then our hydra to take on HPA. Speaking in favor of it however, even with reduced strenght breath you only need to score one 6 on 2d6 to give it a flaming wound and thus your other attacks get through without a regen save.

And indeed it is no save bet to do this, but well, my personal hydra seems to be. It allways does the impossible somehow. It has eaten about anyhting GW has come up with and seems to be hungry for more!


Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:03 pm
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Assassin

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:29 pm
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Lord Damian Valar wrote:
I agree we have much better and secure options then our hydra to take on HPA. Speaking in favor of it however, even with reduced strenght breath you only need to score one 6 on 2d6 to give it a flaming wound and thus your other attacks get through without a regen save.

And indeed it is no save bet to do this, but well, my personal hydra seems to be. It allways does the impossible somehow. It has eaten about anyhting GW has come up with and seems to be hungry for more!


he doesn't get his regen save for the rest of the phase BUT the hydra can only use it at his own I. the brb says that the player who's turn it is can choose the order of conflicting actions, but here there isn't a conflict both the flaming breath AND the attacks are done at the same I, so the same time which means the HPA gets his ward against the attacks. and even then it still has a thougness of 5 which we need to inflict 4-5 wounds still with 7 attacks hitting on 3's with a re-roll and wounding on 4's that will not cut it


Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:28 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Malekii wrote:
I would use a unit of ten CoK with flaming banner plus a really tooled up dreadlord with PoK and caledors bane plus potion of strength.
You'd be better off using a magical great weapon on that dreadlord, since he doesn't get flaming on magic weapons. Let the knights go first, do a flaming wound and rid him of his regen before your lord attacks. If the lord goes first, the wounds might all be wasted on a good set of regen rolls.

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Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:35 am
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