The ninja

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:28 pm

Hey guys just showing you another of my cunning dark elf characters.

This one isnt made up like my special character Manford is, so you can make him in your book.

I use his strictly for killing skirmishers. He does this job very well. It help protect your sorcers and war machine crews!

Ok start off with a dreadlord. Put him on a dark steed for unparreled movement and additional save. Put on a sea dragon cloak and heavy armor.

Next make sure you put on hydras teeth. This is important for killing things. this is one of the most undercosted and underrated items in the book. This item alone can decimate a squad of skinks or even gnobler trappers.

Next you need Lifetaker, so you hit on 2+'s. skirmishers will usually be at minus a lot so this will make everything good.

Then shield of ptolos. 1+ save vs shooting.

What do you guys think of him? He destroys enemy scouts and skirmishers. Still hasnt died yet

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:45 pm

It's not a particularly good character, sorry.

- You can't use hydra's teeth on the same turn as you use lifetaker, so they do clash a bit.
- Hydra's teeth is not undercosted or underated, in fact it has been consistently reviewed as being overcosted and weak for it's points:

(5xD6 WS2, S3 close combat attacks = average of 17.5 attacks
Hitting on 4s vs WS2-4 = 8.75 hits
Wounding on 4s versus T3 = 4.375 wounds.
Killing versus 6+ saves = 3.6 kills

That's scarcely a good result for an item that takes up nearly half of your magic item allowance for the dreadlord)

- You would get more manoueverability on a dark pegasus than a dark steed.
- Shield of Ptolos only delivers a 1+ save versus shooting. Our armour of darkness costs the same and gives a 1+ save versus all enemies. Also, if you have a lord with heavy armour, shield and seadragon cloak, that's a 2+ base save versus missiles (3+ versus CC). Why not just give him the dragon helm or enchanted shield for the same effect but cheaper pricing?

Dutchoven · Post by **Dutchoven** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:59 pm

Lol @ red

If you want a ninja just get Shadowblade

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:22 pm

Why would you put Lifetaker on a character who already has a ballistic skill of 6? He's already hitting things so give Lifetaker to someone more feeble.

And while Hydra's Teeth *may* be decent against Lizardmen or Beastmen, I wouldn't use them on anything else. Definitely not worth their points.

Since I agree with Red on all his points, I think you need better "cunning Dark Elf charactres".

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:30 pm

phierlihy wrote:Why would you put Lifetaker on a character who already has a ballistic skill of 6? He's already hitting things so give Lifetaker to someone more feeble.

And while Hydra's Teeth *may* be decent against Lizardmen or Beastmen, I wouldn't use them on anything else. Definitely not worth their points.

Since I agree with Red on all his points, I think you need better "cunning Dark Elf characters".

The situation came up the other day when some chameleon skinks were over half range, skirmish, and behind hard cover.
instead of -5, i hit them on 2's, killed 3, and they fled.

Post by **Calisson** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:18 pm

Mod's comment:

@ Blondshade
I deleted the double post you just made.
Next time, please check what you write, and if you happen to hit "submit" once too many, you are able to remove the double post yourself, as long as the post to be deleted is the last one in the thread. Please do it, in order to maintain the overall quality of D.net.

Also, I removed a small criticism that you made against another member of D.net, which should not be made public (you can use PM for that) and definitively has nothing to do with tactics.
Everyone using the forums needs to show respect to other users and be very tolerant to mistakes. If this was not the case, the troublemakers would have to be silenced and nobody likes that.

@ all
Please, try to keep the standard of your posts as high as what you see usually.
I am sure that all D.netters appreciate the quality of this website, and this comes directly from the quality of all of your posts.

As a moderator, I had to intervene ways too much these last days. I'd like to spend less time to this task.

Thank you all for your support to D.net in the form of high standard contributions.
Calisson

Deathpepper · Post by **Deathpepper** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:36 pm

The teeth have some interesting mechanics, but I don't see an easy way to abuse them. The only really unique thing about it is it's a ranged attack that can get around 'look out sir'.

Maybe use it to shoot 1 or 2 teeth at a teclis unit each turn to snipe him?

I'd take black dragon egg over the teeth. Cheaper, same slot, flexible (ranged breath on hordes, or cc breath vs elites), even has the Toughness buff thown in.

Dutchoven · Post by **Dutchoven** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:27 am

But out of the ordinary you wont have a -5 modifier... -2 maybe... Personally I have been more of a nuisance with my skirmishers than the opponent has been with theirs. Matter of fact, you could put 5 harpies right by your RBT to hold the attack up or kill them off. Wayyyy cheaper than a 140pt DL with HA,shield, and Lifetaker. Thats like 180 points of i could get shot by 3 poisonous darts and die worth of points. Or you could form a Firebase? Im thinking you play Lizardmen and they get a bit annoying? If Im not correct they have a fairly offensive army. They cant sit back and out shoot you. Set your ranged in the center and form a barrier around them leaving them room to shoot. Thats how I fight armies without ranged weapons. They have to come to you. If they dont you will do ok in the magic phase and well in the shooting phase... Just my 2 cents

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:27 am

You need to also keep in mind that you cannot march and shoot too. Whilst a movement of 9 is quite nice, it's still fairly restrictive compared to actual Dark Riders who can march 18 AND still shoot.

1+ save vs shooting is good, until you come across cannonballs and bolt throwers which ignore your AS completely. The lifetaker certainly is excellent for picking off skirmishers that are very hard to hit. But I would rather give it to a Sorceress over a Dreadlord or Master because they can do so much more damage in CC.

Rather than that shield, give him a Dragonhelm if he's mounted and a mundane shield because he'll still have 1+ against shooting as well as CC PLUS he has 2+ ward against fire. It's a cheaper and much more cost effective way to equip him. Armour of Darkness and Shield of Ptolos is normally used when you're not mounted.

The Hydra Teeth is pretty cool, I quite like the item, but sadly it really really isn't worth its points cost. It'd be a one off for fun item for me, even a Bladewind doesn't do as much as I'd like, and it's WS4 and S4.

Hydra Teeth would be ok if, unlike Bladewind, you can put more attacks onto a character within a unit. Sadly that's not the case so it's pretty much a no go for me.

Character Build - A thread started by EbonyPheonix if you like to have a look at some of the builds people had came up with.

8th ed Magic Items Summary - An excellent summary and rating of the magic items available to us both from our army book and from the 8th ed BRB done by Malus99

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:10 am

Meteor wrote:You need to also keep in mind that you cannot march and shoot too. Whilst a movement of 9 is quite nice, it's still fairly restrictive compared to actual Dark Riders who can march 18 AND still shoot.

1+ save vs shooting is good, until you come across cannonballs and bolt throwers which ignore your AS completely. The lifetaker certainly is excellent for picking off skirmishers that are very hard to hit. But I would rather give it to a Sorceress over a Dreadlord or Master because they can do so much more damage in CC.

Rather than that shield, give him a Dragonhelm if he's mounted and a mundane shield because he'll still have 1+ against shooting as well as CC PLUS he has 2+ ward against fire. It's a cheaper and much more cost effective way to equip him. Armour of Darkness and Shield of Ptolos is normally used when you're not mounted.

The Hydra Teeth is pretty cool, I quite like the item, but sadly it really really isn't worth its points cost. It'd be a one off for fun item for me, even a Bladewind doesn't do as much as I'd like, and it's WS4 and S4.

Hydra Teeth would be ok if, unlike Bladewind, you can put more attacks onto a character within a unit. Sadly that's not the case so it's pretty much a no go for me.

Character Build - A thread started by EbonyPheonix if you like to have a look at some of the builds people had came up with.

8th ed Magic Items Summary - An excellent summary and rating of the magic items available to us both from our army book and from the 8th ed BRB done by Malus99

That sounds like good advice. I'll try that out next time.
You should try out my guy though he is better than he looks on paper he wont upset :shock:

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:37 pm

Took this guy again gaming last night. caused a lot of ruckus for my opponents which were skaven in my first game and my other game was marauder horsemen heavy WoC.

He was MVP both games

Eolelfslayer · Post by **Eolelfslayer** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:52 am

Hydra's teeth aint that bad, you can give them to an otherwise not very useful scroll caddy without scrolls, maybe the one on the pegasus (quite a common occurrence now that players can only have one scroll but still want to use their multiple models from 7th), but i am rather hard pressed to call it undercosted, sheesh!
Bloodshade you have made a character that looks good for disrupting purpuses but heck, he's a dreadlord that hunts skirmishers! I for one (but that's a personal choiche) prefer either an hard to kill dreadlord (4w and pendant) or a very killy one (ogre blade and other nastyness), usually i play high point games so i can afford both, but i'd think twice before dedicating a lord choice to decimate skirmishers and warmachine crews. Again its a personal point, i guess it depends a lot on who or what you face the most. Cheers!

The virgin forest · Post by **The virgin forest** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:19 pm

Yup, no reason to use a dreadlord for hunting skirmishers, 3 units of shades could do the same job and more, while providing better general support to an army.

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:30 pm

Have you tried him out? Shades die 2 quickly and hardly do their job.
Ever been on the other end of cham skinks blowpipes or gnoblar sharp things? ouch

The virgin forest · Post by **The virgin forest** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:37 pm

Nope, haven't tried him out.

I find that a dreadlord has better uses in taking out bigger threats - like monsters and deathstars

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:00 pm

Yea you can make him good at that too =D.

I use my shades and harpies to divert the big threats though. To each his own!

L1qw1d · Post by **L1qw1d** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:34 pm

I did a Master build of this recently-

Just an Ench Shield, Lifetaker and a BM scourge (Hvy Armour, and SDC as well) ; Plunked him with the Shades. Worked pretty well to soften enemies just before the charge, and managed to whack a couple of challenges (he hid a Hero in the back). He wasn't expecting me to take him out, so he lost that evil empire sniper rifle

Thenick18 · Post by **Thenick18** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:55 pm

I think the name ninja is best left to serve as an assassin's build...

Try something like "really really really good archer or evil robin hood"

Burizan · Post by **Burizan** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:18 am

Blondshade wrote:I use my shades and harpies to divert the big threats though. To each his own!

Harpies can be excellent against skirmishers:
1) hide the behind a friendly unit/terrain so you can see the target but get hard cover, and will be comfortably within 19"
2) charge. They shoot when they can, so generally this is -1 long range, -2 hard cover, - 1 skirmishers, -1 charging.

He's unlikely to hit, let alone wound, anything. Even without hard cover he has issues. 10 ws3 s3 attacks isn't much different to hydra's teeth, but you should win combat or at least pin him down long enough to do something else about them.