dealing with this WoC army

Malmorte · Post by **Malmorte** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:39 pm

Well in my local club a WoC regular plays a msu kind of army, and usually has good results, and sometime this week i'm going to play him...any help to take out his army with my army?

I play

DL w/ pendant and giant blade on cold one
sorceress w/ staff of sorcery, lore of fire
cauldron bsb
30 speamen
20 xbows
10 xbows
5 harpies
15 BG w/ crimson death
9 CoK w/ flaming banner
Hydra

he's gonna play

Sorcerer Lord
Level 4
Lore of Fire
Infernal Puppet
Enchanted Shield
Necrotic Phylactery

Heroes
Exalted Hero
BSB
Armour of Morrslieb
Flail
Mark of Tzeentch

Core
5 x10 Warriors
Halberds
Musician

30 Marauders of Chaos
Mark of Tzeentch
Shields
Light Armour
Standard and Musician
212

26 Marauders of Chaos
Mark of Tzeentch
Shields
Light Armour
Standard

5 Warhounds

5 Warhounds

Hellcannon

Any ideas? each unit is quite deadly, even 10 chaos warriors with halberds can wreak destruction...

Burizan · Post by **Burizan** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:52 pm

I am not sure how much I can do with your army list (can you not change lores at all?) but here goes:

Don't miscast till the sorc lord dies. Lore of fire spells aren't individually potent enough to be worth probable death/loss of casting ability, except perhaps flame cage.

Your hydra can take a couple of his warrior units head on. Which is why you template / shoot them first, or combi charge with something else. COK will eat his warriors if you get them +1 A, they also fancy their chances against the HC if the opportunity arises. If they become 3 or less then retreat to save VPs.

If at all possible ignore the marauders. They will bog you down and are next to worthless, so he will probably leave chars in there. On the last turn charge in with the COK or hydra right next to a character and you will easily kill him.

Your dreadlord can win you this game. For whatever reason your opponent has decided not to take champions/warshrine, which means his bsb / general (weak as kittens against your dreadlord - they both get a 6+ save in combat) so i recommend charging in and killing that caster ASAP to give you magic dominance. He also rapes warriors (slowly if they're near the BSB) and is one of the two things in your army that can pick up the pretty 205 VP gift package.

To summarise:

sorc / xbows are hurting chaos warriors all game (unless chars are in marauders in which case flame cage becomes acceptable.

COK and DL are standalone combat units with specific roles. BG and spearmen need to be supported, though cauldron blessing might be enough.

Harpies are there mainly as a nuisance but can actually kill warhounds...

Get the characters and his army will crumble.

Edit: Anything specific, ask me. I have played both armies (and used almost all of those units) quite extensively, but getting my experience into text is a little hard :p.

Nellamik · Post by **Nellamik** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:34 pm

What lore will he use?
What mark of Chaos does he use?

Watch out for marauder horseman with throwing weapons.

How will you deal with the hellcanon?

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:50 pm

I really don't expect you'll have any difficulty with his army whatsoever. Take your Cold One Knights, point them at any of those little Warrior units, and you'll simply run through them turn after turn. You can also run your Black Guard and Hydra in tandem together, and they can achieve the same feat. Simply walk into his army and destroy it, tie down his marauders with your spearmen after thinning them with a few turns of shooting to make sure they don't have Steadfast.

Send your Lord after the Hellcannon. Once the Hellcannon is dead, turn around and use him to help hunt down warrior units or to help your Core blocks beat his marauder blocks.

The only real risk I see is if you let your units get spread out, or don't make your charges decisive enough with those warrior units. It's important you bring overwhelming force to bear, turn-after-turn, to be certain your Cold One Knights and Black Guard to take too many casualties before all those Warrior units are gone. The Black Guard will work wonders for you, but not if they take a Hellcannon shot to the face, or get burned down quickly by his magic. Focus your dispel dice on keeping them safe, and put their Initiative 6 to good use.

It's too bad you don't have those Black Guard 20-strong, with Crimson Death or Whip of Agony on the champ and Banner of Murder for the rest of the unit. I would bet on that configuration to beat all those Chaos Warrior units single-handedly.

Malmorte · Post by **Malmorte** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:19 am

the BG do have the crimson death, just have't written...edited !
no mark on the character !

Nellamik · Post by **Nellamik** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:57 am

Thanks for updating the enemies list, that clerifies things a bit.

Like Tethlis says it should be good for you.

I take it you plan on your dreadlord joining the 9 CoK's.

If he does he can't go off hellcannon hunting as Tethlis suggested.
(Which he should)

It might be a good idea to drop 3 CoK's and 1 Xbow (from the 20) to get the BG up to 20 with the banner of murder. They will then be awsome.

That will leave you with 6 CoK's with the FB.
Just a thought.

Burizan · Post by **Burizan** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:19 am

dreadlords aren't the only things that can hunt hellcannons, don't commit him so easily as you might get a better opportunity to cut down a very expensive mage and/or BSB

Dutchoven · Post by **Dutchoven** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:34 am

as you know with De's we need positioning, I saw start close to him, then withdraw every round luring him closer to you each round while shooting him up the entire time. use lore of Metal... you can get the +to hit spell for your bows and with a 4+ AS as a basis for all woc you can slaughter his guys while they cross the field. if you can send the dreadlord after the hellcannon and use the COK to flank the big units of marauders. make a gauntlet. have it set up so that all his guys get stuck in a wedge \ _ / <== death to chaos. Thats how I beat them. The sorc will probably be tzeentch and cast pandemonium, dispel asap. Other than that GL with internal gateway. rolling 11 or 12 on 2d6 is not reliable but dispel that too if he has it. he has to come to you so you control the fight.

Malmorte · Post by **Malmorte** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:48 am

I think a ring of hotek is also a good idea on the CoK....to shut down the sorc even without killing him....so 8 cok w/ a ring of hotek

Dutchoven · Post by **Dutchoven** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:19 pm

yeah, ROH would be a good investment

Malekii · Post by **Malekii** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:17 am

Mark of tzeench gives you a ward save right. If so the other tricksters shard will be very useful. and either the lore of death or metal will be useful fire, being only strength 4 means the he will useually get a 5+ armour save and a possible ward save.

Dutchoven · Post by **Dutchoven** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:21 am

gl with a 6+

Malmorte · Post by **Malmorte** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:07 am

I use fire as my general lore against everyone because you are not really allowed to change lores between games, otherwise i'd take lore of metal, but that would be tailoring...fire is useful aginst WoC, skaven, daemon, HE, just about everyone..