Adapting to new rules.

[Minigrift]

Well I am assuming with shadow lore, she can switch places with the Dread Lord and Assassin after successfully casting a spell. So at first I might keep her in the Corsair unit, then I can switch places with the Dread Lord in the Crossbow unit and retreat to a safe distance while CC unfolds. Finally if I need to, I can switch places with the assassin. I think between the three units, I can spread the sacrificing out and also give my sorceress some great vantage points for casting spells and even using the black dragon egg.

I think putting her in the shades and casting the pendulum spell at war machines could be fun, or even pit of shades.

I really don't like the idea of taking a spear unit of any size and having them sit back and guard my sorceress. Crossbows can do the same thing and they can contribute to the rest of the battle by shooting.

Can a sorceress use power of darkness with other magic lores?

Yes, she can. All Sorceresses know this spell inherently, no matter what lore you take.


Spearmen can be played offensively to hold enemy units in place while you bring your Knights and other units to flank or rear charge, but they are better suited to a defensive style. In a defensive army with heavy shooting and magic, and not so many specialised close combat units, Spearmen will often form the centre of a battleline.

A good trick with a Sac Dag Sorceress if you have two units of 30 - 40 Spearmen is to switch units in every movement phase and take sacrifices from each unit - I used this a lot in 7th edition, but not really tried it yet for 8th.

Smoke and Mirrors is also incredibly useful for the reasons you described. I will often have a BSB in a unit of crossbowmen nearby, then when my spearmen are in danger of being in combat (you could even charge with them and surprise your opponent) switch the sorceress for the BSB.


The Black Dragon Egg does wonderful things... Most of the time

[Noble korhedron]

Only one problem there - the spell HAS to come off... Or does the switch occur automatically due to the Lore ability(I forget what they call Lore abilites! )?

[Saintofm]

Long time since posting last, equally long since I played.

I finally played a game last night with some friends and my army was annihilated to the man. I also got to experience the new rules for the first time, which largely seem unchanged(it's been 9 months since my last game). I am curious how people have changed their army lists, unit structure and tactics to compensate for the new rules.

How are people using dark riders now? I liked using 5 man units with only a musician and spears as war machine hunters and flankers. But now since you need 10 to negate rank bonuses, their role as a flanking unit seems diminished.

I also notice the effectiveness of march blocking and redirecting seems to have been greatly hampered, making dark riders seem less valuable now.

Dark riders, like fast cavalry in general, are still used for baiting and harassing troops. While the baiting is hampered by the variable charge charge range, they are still effective in that area, are still effective in getting the first shots in, and still effective against smaller units.

Plus its an easy way to eat up points for your core choice.

Are great weapon shades still a popular choice? Always strikes last really seems to ruin the great weapon option I was previously so fond of.

Am I mistaken or can shades now deploy anywhere outside 12" from the enemy deployment, while being hidden is not required?

Yes, scouts can be deployed up to 12 inches of the enemy, but they cannot charge them, so if you do so do it with a unit that suck in close combat and won't do too much damage to you with range weapons. (cannons, bolt throwers crews and most shooty units).

I have asked about this on the Astronomican forums for the GW, and everyone there seems to think great weapons on shades are useless. I am one to agree as they have little to no protection, and even their high weapon skill is no longer a good protection. And if they are fighting another unit with great weapons, they attack at the same time so having elf initiative doesn't help them. Its better to give them two hand weapons as they can hold their own that way, especially if they are in woods.

Any advice on dealing with horde units would be appreciated. I got to face a 50 man High Elf spear man unit with lord, as well as a 100 man night goblin unit with Skarsnik and both units were absolutely gross. Is anyone else bitter that high elves essentially have hatred in addition to ASF now?

Don't take reapers unless you take at least four of them. However shooting in general is good as most hoard armies are not high in either the armor or LD department so a good panic test is good. ANy template spells are also great as anything under it gets hit automaticly. Even if you lake a spell like that, there are several that can get more deviously destructive the bigger the target unit is.

High elves in general, especially the 50 strong spearmen, are best dealt with from afar. You only get one character type, and a couple of items that grant of have ASF, so I doubt you'll have any luck there.

I really liked where the magic phase has gone, it seems greatly improved. What lores are popular among dark elf players? Shadow looks very appealing to me so far and metal seems fairly balanced.

The magic phase is evened out now, as you don't have the points to spend on a completely over powered spell caster most of the time, or if you do do that its a point sink and everyone with range weapons knows it. They also change the focus of the game to the masses of armies. Wizards are nice for augmenting your troops and changing the battle line, but overall they are only a small part now. That and you don't have to worry about not getting a spell of because someone brought a scroll caddy.

[Dread_knight666]

Only one problem there - the spell HAS to come off... Or does the switch occur automatically due to the Lore ability(I forget what they call Lore abilities! Embarrassed )?

I can't see it being a major problem with four spells thats four opportunities to use smoke and mirrors, you should be successful at least one time.

I am assuming you can not use smoke and mirrors upon casting power of darkness since it is not a shadow lore spell?

Also how do the bonus dice from sacrificing and POD work with the 12 power dice limit?

The Black Dragon Egg does wonderful things... Most of the time

I have always liked it, especially in conjunction with repeater hand bows, I know it isn't very popular though, but I think it is a fun item. It might even save my sorceress with the toughness boost, should she get into CC somehow.

Now that you can use breath weapons in CC, could you now use black dragon egg in your opponents turn while in CC for the breath weapon and the toughness 6?

Don't take reapers unless you take at least four of them. However shooting in general is good as most hoard armies are not high in either the armor or LD department so a good panic test is good.

I am dropping the reapers from my list. I was never a huge fan of them in 7th ed and now that I realize how vulnerable they have become, they just don't seem worth it. I know I will be faced with situations where I wish I had them though, but they are too expensive, they should be like 50 points for what they do and how easily they are destroyed.

Plus its an easy way to eat up points for your core choice.

This was my conclusion as well, so dark riders found their way back into my list again but with a slightly different role.

High elves in general, especially the 50 strong spear men, are best dealt with from afar. You only get one character type, and a couple of items that grant of have ASF, so I doubt you'll have any luck there.

Agreed. This goes back to my versatility rant, high elves are just plain difficult for DE to deal with in CC and if you have no shooting, your probably out of luck. The only good way in the last edition to face them in CC was to use COK, or high toughness units like hydras or Chariots, this is more true now than ever I suspect.

[Ichiyo1821]

Agreed. This goes back to my versatility rant, high elves are just plain difficult for DE to deal with in CC and if you have no shooting, your probably out of luck. The only good way in the last edition to face them in CC was to use COK, or high toughness units like hydras or Chariots, this is more true now than ever I suspect.

Versatility rant? Are you ranting about HE versatility?Have you checked our AB recently? Honestly in this edition RXBmen are so good and versatile that not taking at least one unit of 20 is imo not maximizing DE's potential in 8th. Yes HE are good in CC when against DE as we have "lost" our significant advantage against them but compared to DE, it is much easier to mismatch HE units. Sure they have Swordmasters but they are still t3/5+as elves that can be shot at or avoided with our faster units. Phoenix Guard are tough only when they have a mage in them but if they don't, no reason to take them on when you haven't tilted combat in your favor this is not counting the possibility of a ROH peg master. We can play tag with their Dragon Princes with our COK, Sure they'll outrange us for one turn but we can outshoot their archers with RXB. Hydras when positioned and used correctly can take out half a unit with breath weapons making it less potent when it eventually charges them. We have Shades and Dark Riders to easily counter their warmachines and a hard to kill Dreadlord to tarpit any needed unit be it a dragon or DP. Without Teclis I really don't see HE being a problem when we take into consideration ways to mitigate their ASF.

[Tethlis]

In defense of Spearmen, I play an extremely offensive playstyle and I include two units of 30+ in all my lists. Given how easily our elite offensive units can be destroyed, it really pays to have a flexible, forgivable, disposable unit like spearmen in a list. In virtually every game, I'm either holding one flank with spearmen while going after the other with my hardest-hitting units, or I'm advancing with everything and letting my spearmen tie up an enemy block so my Black Guard or Cold One Knights have time to work through the enemy regiment without being flanked or counter-charged. Spearmen really help to compensate for our fragility and overall lack of numbers, and since having more bodies often means greater staying power than being able to kill things, I choose them over Corsairs to suit my playstyle.

[Minigrift]

Tethlis has pretty much said what I was trying to say earlier - only better!

Now that you can use breath weapons in CC, could you now use black dragon egg in your opponents turn while in CC for the breath weapon and the toughness 6?

Don't have my army book to hand but I am pretty sure this is entirely possible. However, you would have be unlucky enough to have your Sorceress in that position in the first place. Since she'll likely be dead before that happens. I always try to avoid CC with Sorceresses if at all possible. Smoke and Mirrors is a good trick for that - assuming you manage to pull it off...

Have only had one game versus the new High Elves, and I wiped the floor with them and hardly broke a sweat! It was largely due to my opponent having never played them before, though

[L1qw1d]

1: welcome back, and may your enemies tremble before you!

2: one error re: Shades v. DR: Shades cannot really take multiple ranks- they have to maximize frontage and don't get rank bonuses. Also, VERY sadly, no Hidden rule for them lets the person know they are there from the beginning of the game. Mortar bait, sometimes as I recently found

C: P.o.D. works for any of our casters, regardless of Lore. we cannot pass the 12 dice, but CAN do refuels mid magic phase BUT you have to get 4- none of that 'I got 2 and my Sorc is lvl 2!' stuff

4: Black Dragon Egg is a handy toy that makes our Toughness 6 for a round and lets the user breathe fire as one of our dragons (wacky when taking a dragon and people are expecting only one breath weapon); Also good for the first round of CC in some cases.

We function fairly well in MMU and MSU