Har Ganeth Executioners & ASF BSB Death Hag

Vynaru · Post by **Vynaru** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:12 am

I have a suggestion for an intense Close Combat unit that would make the core damage output of an army:

15+ Har Ganeth Executioners with full command, flame banner, and a Death Hag BSB (Banner of Hag Graef granting Always Strikes First).

The ASF banner counteracts ASL from the Great Weapons and gives you a unit with minimum 11 attacks (5 wide plus champion) at Str 6 and flaming that swings at Initiative 5. (Which is high enough to attack before most things besides characters or insane monsters.)

Thoughts and opinions on this?

Lepaca · Post by **Lepaca** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:22 am

For the points spend on the Hag (who needs to be in the front row and is really squishy) you could get a lot more execs, which is IMO better.
Also I would not give them flamming attacks because most "unkillable" builds have a 2+ ward against those and can therefore easily block this unit for quite a long tome.

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:06 pm

Unfortunatley the search funtion will reveal that the BSB will die a horrible and painful death making this build a weak one.

L1qw1d · Post by **L1qw1d** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:18 pm

welcome to d.net, vyn, may your enemies cower before you and wet themselves from your might.

also recall one important thing: if it works for you, go for it; if it doesn't, alter it. also: the bsb stops you from getting magic items- but not khaine's toys

how you use it will be difficult as previously noted, and you'd need to send a LOT of ranged and magic overhead if you did use it. Painful death or no, try it. you honestly never know. It's a LOT of random variables. I think it's more a question of cost effectiveness, not not work.

Why do I say this? exec's are the equivalent of swordmasters- something that DOES function well as a 12 man unit. if you drop flaming for the ASF, it should work slightly better. Hag BSB is usually considered better because it's a warmachine, and has quite a number of bumps to saving throws. having the exec's withing 12" is optimal to keep them stubborn as well.

Babnik · Post by **Babnik** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:38 pm

Give your idea a try, there were a lot of talks about this combo but I am not sure posters really tried it on a board!

But all above comments are correct about how your BSB will die quickly...There are many many great options for the BSB in our Druchii legions.

Flame banner is the best magical banner for the Execs though! Against high toughness like treemen, hydra and hell pit abominations, it works like a charm. Whereas other banner look a bit useless...

Carolus · Post by **Carolus** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:17 pm

Most people will know there's the ASF banner in a unit of Execs with a bsb, and a small unit will mostly be shot to pieces (T3 5+ save).
If you wanna go for this build i'd make the unit bigger. First round of combat is a real killer, but when the hag dies (which will happen) the unit loses it's true potential.

Greenwhy · Post by **Greenwhy** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:00 am

This was being discussed elsewhere on this forum, and the person took a unit to a tournament with great success!

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=68198

Carolus is correct though, your unit will get shot because it's low numbers make it an easy target. You need a bigger unit for this strategy to be viable (assuming your army is ~2500 points).

Vynaru · Post by **Vynaru** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:58 am

Thanks for your help! I've made the Har Ganeth a unit of 16 (8x2) usually and give them either flame or +1 combat res and have an army list with WE core and Crone as the general. It gives me flexibility to run Crone and ASF BSB in either unit depending on the nature of what I'm fighting.

I almost always back them up with a Cauldron of Blood to give them stubborn, remain in combat and ignore static from horde units.

PS anyone know why the army list section is no longer accepting posts?

Lord damian valar · Post by **Lord damian valar** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:05 pm

As I truly love Executioners I try to make lists for them now and then. In almost all aspects however in those lists I rather make the Cauldren BsB or the flying pegasus chuck norris build BsB, rather then and ASF Death Hag BsB for the Exes.

Something I tried out one time and truly worked well was the following:

40 Executioners (FC / MR 1 banner)
Death Hag Cauldron BsB
Sorc lvl 4 (lore of Metal)

Now give your executioner horde the 5+ ward save from the cauldron and cast the spell that granst the 5+ Scaly skin save on them. All of a sudden your have 3+ AS and a 4+ ward vs spells on your killing machines as you move up to your opponent and kill everything in your path with 31 str 6 killing blow attacks with hatred.

try it out and have fun!

D...

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:04 pm

Scaly Skin truely is a great spell if you want resilient DE units of any type. I have experimented with ASF in Executioners and when it does work, it works brilliantly. However, the armies they were tested on were 3x2 units of Ogres and blocks of Chaos Warriors, which all hate GWs that can easily wound them and kill them for that matter.

But you do require a big horde size unit before you bother taking ASF with them. A measly 8x2 unit isn't going to worthwhile investing ASF into because the unit is too small to soak up damage from shooting and magic and still dish out a lot of attacks.

Fingol23 · Post by **Fingol23** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:55 am

I would argue that having a big unit of executioners removes the need for ASF as you are still going to have enough bodies to inflict a lot of damage on the enemy after they have attacked.

Lord damian valar · Post by **Lord damian valar** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:10 pm

Well if you have 40 of them and they have a 3+ armour save and 5+ ward save then even if your enemy kills 10 of them (which I doubt would happen) then you still hit with full potential and thus inflict 31 str 6 attacks with killing blow and hatred upon them. Not many enemy units stand a chance against that....

Olderplayer · Post by **Olderplayer** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:08 am

That is still a lot to get off. You have to get Lore of Metal and roll the right spell and cast it successfully each of your magic phases and you need a cauldron's ward save dedicated to the unit. That is a lot to dedicate to a unit that can die if hit in the flank.

This is a very good unit if you know you will be facing armies not immune to KB and with heavy armour but those armies will chew up the unit before it gets to hit back. Otherwise, you are actually better off with witch elves with banner of murder .

The death hag BSB idea is effective to a point, if and only if you know you will be hitting first and kill fast enough to avoid them killing the death hag and can break the opposing unit in the first round, but so many units are stubborn or steadfast at least for one round of combat. Some players are suprisingly negligent about going after charaacters and will not focus enough attacks on her to kill her. But against a better player, she will die on most occasions and you really don't want your BSB dying right away. That is a lot of VPs to give up just to overcome ASL for one or two rounds of combat.

Methuselah · Post by **Methuselah** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:00 pm

I usually take a big unit of execs AND a BSB. And they rule. I did over 30 wounds to a tomb guard unit in one turn, killing every model.

Lord damian valar · Post by **Lord damian valar** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:45 am

Lets not forget the best reason to use executioners: They're friggin awesome models!

D...

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:54 am

Lord Damian Valar wrote:Lets not forget the best reason to use executioners: They're friggin awesome models!

D...

Agreed. That's why I use them, despite all their faults.