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WE Waywatchers killing blow arrows against dreadlord 
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Highborn
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:53 pm
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Location: Norway
Hey

Hey!

I am about field my Druchii against WE again. Last time it went great (19-1), but I did not enter my unkillable lord.

This time I am changing my setup, and he will enter the battlefield.

My dread has the pendant, crown, whip, HA, SDC and riding a peg

He often deployes really tight, and the Waywatchers has god range

My question is simply:
How fragile is my dread against killing blow arrows from the Waywatchers, as the killing blow neglects save. The pendant seems a bit week against S3/4 killing blow arrows.

Should I stay out of range until the Waywatchers are down?

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Khitai - Khanite - Group 38
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Skills: Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
Equipment: 2xfine scimitars, dagger
Inventory: Gold 30, Crowns 40, 1 Red ruby


Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:57 pm
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Highborn
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Ops, sorry about the hey hey :oops:

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Khitai - Khanite - Group 38
WS5 - S3 - T2 - D5 - I3
Skills: Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
Equipment: 2xfine scimitars, dagger
Inventory: Gold 30, Crowns 40, 1 Red ruby


Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:59 pm
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Noble
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The Killing Blow ability is only for short-range shots, so proper maneuvering should keep any threat to your Dreadlord practically non-existent. Even then, Waywatchers come in relatively small units, so I don't think they are something you should change your battle plan for, just be aware of them.

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Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:11 pm
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Highborn
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Yea, but still 15". He is a player that hardly moves forward, and his deployment is really tight. But...... just take the other way around:)

Tnx for responding

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Khitai - Khanite - Group 38
WS5 - S3 - T2 - D5 - I3
Skills: Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
Equipment: 2xfine scimitars, dagger
Inventory: Gold 30, Crowns 40, 1 Red ruby


Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:35 pm
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Cold One Knight
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This can be a problem, so here are two ways that you can avoid it. The first way is to get the dread lord into combat as fast as possible, so the wat watchers cannot hurt him right away, so you can then have a few turns to kill them off. The second is to take dark and shadow magic and cast word of pain or chillwind or miasma (do the big version so you can lower their ballistic skill and movement) to make those units of way watchers a lot less viable. Hope this helps
Cheers,
-Ave


Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:23 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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They're T3. Repeater Crossbows are the answer. March up a unit of 30 or so and pincushion them. Use Harpies, Shades and Dark Riders to divert their fire and give your more valuable stuff cover.


Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:22 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Vulcan wrote:
They're T3. Repeater Crossbows are the answer. March up a unit of 30 or so and pincushion them. Use Harpies, Shades and Dark Riders to divert their fire and give your more valuable stuff cover.


Move + long range + Skirmishers + Waywatchers + multiple shots = 8+ to hit with most repeater crossbow units.

I agree that Lethal Shot doesn't become a likelihood until you're dealing with a big unit of Waywatchers. I used to field a unit 10-strong just for that purpose, because it was difficult to pin down, difficult to shoot, and Lethal Shot actually had a good likelihood of success. It will also be hard to trick the Waywatchers by staying out of their range; Marching and shooting as skirmishers will allow him to get within 15 inches pretty easily.

I agree that there's lots of ways to deal with this issue though. Charging the Waywatchers with pretty much anything will hurt them, and Shades or Lifetaker are both accurate enough to cause a few wounds and make them nervous. As with all things, magic is always an option as well.

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Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:20 am
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Highborn
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My tip against WE:

Play to their fluff. This may sound "geeky" to some of you folks but against WE (which imo is tactically superior to DE in certain aspects) you should always put in mind that you are ALWAYS in their territory and fight on their terms.

Imagine your army entering the woods of Athel Loren and what would you expect? Ambushers, Guerrilla Tactics and funky baits and traps. These concepts are real for WE armies. Remember your rules, Waywatchers and Scouts can deploy 12" away from any unit of yours meaning watch your flanks and deploy closer to table edges and terrain if you need to. Use line of sight blocking terrain to shield yourself from Gladeguard fire while making sure you are not hampering your own ability to shoot or charge units. Treemen are tough but we have solutions for it on top of avoiding it altogether. Don't give to frustrating hit and run tactics and get pissed off into making wrong decisions in movement. That is the single most powerful tool they have imo, the ability to annoy with tricks like shooting you for two turns then when you get close, they move past you or do the retreating cover firing with multiple units strategy of say shooting 3 units at you and when you commit to one of those units, it flees giving the other 3 free pot shots at your blocked unit or monster. to make it short, the most important things to consider is deployment and movement. I cannot stress how important these are when fighting WE. Forget about Treemen being T6 and Dryads having S4 and all that Jazz and study how you imagine he would be moving his units and if you do it right sooner or later you can actually trap his units and easily kill him in close combat or do enough damage that you are ahead in points and he can't get enough out of your own. X unit vs Y unit strategy does not work that well against them as they can simply avoid units that they can't handle. If I were the WE general, why would I even let your 24" fireball hit my Treeman?

Depending on your list and setup, decimating one part of the board or spreading around are your choices.

Don't get me wrong but people regard WE as the lowest tier army atm, to a certain extent I agree if you take into consideration all the armies of WHFB and the 8th edition specific scenarios (Blood and Glory, Watchtower, Battle for the Pass come into mind) but against certain armies, WE are still deadly as ever and that includes DE. We are all but t3 against s3/s4 shots in the end.

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Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:22 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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For a way watcher, don't we just throw a unit that he can't autokill to hold him, and then hit him en route to something more powerful with a unit like Shades?

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Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:43 am
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Highborn
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A good WE player will never give you a chance to charge his Waywatchers and always be just a tad out of your charge range or too close behind your lines.

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Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:22 am
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Slave on the Altar

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Hi all,
Maybe I am wrong, but what about Hydra's breath weapon? It can kill Waywatchers... If he deploys in 12"


Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:33 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Sorc on a peggy with chillwind can annoy him to no end, you will have to play her with an aggressive subtly in conjunction with the peggy dred.

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Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:53 pm
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i agree with doni that is what i used in a big 4000 point game where i had three of them did not kill the unit but reduced effectiveness and scared him soo much he didnt use them propperly for rest of the game otherwise id say unless he is using big units of them just ignore them and get into combat dont bother magicking them as you usualy have better targets but can be useful to doom bolt them as a way to use spare dice or get him to use dispel dice

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Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:25 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:21 am
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I usually play vs. my brother's WE and waywatchers are the biggest threat for our unkillable lord. They almost always hit on 2+ on close range. So for unit of 6 or more there is quite big chance for kb. It's not easy to charge them with decent we player. Best way to deal with them is magic. Good way is also screen with harpies - he is hitting on 4+ not on 2+.
IMHO we are really annoying to play against, it's not so easy to catch them and theirs shooting hearts.
But when you finally get to them ... DE go through them like knife through butter.


Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:21 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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The simple solution is actually to deploy in any unit (even infantry), as any shots will not be able to touch you until the unit is less than 5 models strong. Move up inside that unit and only leave it to go into CC. Also, as someone said, the Lifetaker is the best item in the game to take care of WWs.


Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:45 am
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Highborn
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Hey. Tnx for all replies, its really cool to see.

I wonder..... Will it be a better solution to equip
the dread diffrent against WE? Leaving the pendant at home?

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Khitai - Khanite - Group 38
WS5 - S3 - T2 - D5 - I3
Skills: Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
Equipment: 2xfine scimitars, dagger
Inventory: Gold 30, Crowns 40, 1 Red ruby


Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:56 pm
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Highborn
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You could go for the Dragonhelm, Armor of Eternal Servitude Route if you want to leave the Pendant at home.

WE hate Lifetaker. 2 to hit S4 repeater crossbow that makes Waywatchers cry. Put it on your Sorceress or Master/Dreadlord on a Darksteed or Pegasus and shoot to your heart's content.

Cloak of Hag Graef too is viable if you use Dragons or Manticores or the likes.

That is it for me without tailoring to them. These items you can use even if you are not fighting WE.

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"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

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Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:38 am
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Assassin
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Though the AOES combo doesn't hold up against killing blow which is the thing he is concerned about. Killing Blow negates regeneration.

As for the rest of the stuff been said in this thread I agree, Lifetaker is great and if you are concerned about WW killing blow stick him in a unit so he cant be targeted until you are close enough to charge what you want to.

I don't think it is worth changing the pendant simply to avoid low strength killing blow because unless you give him a 4+ ward save you probably wont find any better way of defending against it but you spend 10 more points for effectively the same thing.

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Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:30 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Am i getting things wrong here or is a character mounted on a peg immune to killing blow because the model counts as being monstrous cavalry. I am going to play a very good WE player and was banking on a master with peg, dawnstone, cloak of HG etc to mess his waywatchers up. Any help or clarification of the rules would be welcome. I have looked at the rule book and i was sure a peg character is immune to KB, but as no one has mentioned it here i am seriously doubting myself.

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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:24 pm
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