Proper use of Harpies

[Cold73]

Having only recently started playing as a Dark Elf 'wannabe' general.

I'm afraid i;m not entirely sure on the best way to use Harpies.

In a short battle i played yesterday they seem to be good warmachine hunters, although i personally prefer shades for that.

but other then that I'm at a loss how to best apploy these flying units.

Can anyone give some advice?

[Pjeos]

Hi there,


Theory on how to use harpies will tell you that they fulfill lots of rolls. Still you won't get any clear clue of how to use them since they can be used a thousand different ways.

My piece of advice is: through the game, the time will come that you need something to avoid an enemy charge. Then, the time will have come to sacrifce some Harpies to block that charge. Keep your Harpies safe behind your units untill the need arises to sacrifice them.

After a few games you will be a lot more familiarized with their possible uses, which include a lot more things appart from sacrificing.



Salu2



PS: As a rule of thumb, include 5 Harpies for every 1000 points in the list. You will never regret having included them

PS2: And welcome to Naggaroth, watch your back and bring glory to the Witch King

[Tmarichards]

Hi Cold, welcome to DE.

Harpies are one of the most versatile units in the DE book, their primary functions being tying up war machines (which they can do more cheaply than shades) and redirecting. Unable to resist blowing my own trumpet, if you're at all interested in some more detailed advice on using redirectors I would humbly suggest watching this Youtube video if you have 20 minutes spare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdGLIwMUowo

They also have some other uses, such as counteracting your frenzy units or cheap assassination runs, but these will come with more experience. However, I would suggest that you just keeping taking them and experimenting with them because even though their uses may not be immediately obvious, they are certainly an excellent unit.

[Cold73]

Very good explenation video.
I did indeed take the time to watch the entire video.
and might watch some of your others just for the fun of it.

I will admit i would never have thought of using units this way...
But then again...most of my experience came from using an empire army several years back. And those tactics are rather straight forward

[Ichiyo1821]

Harpy general uses in my order

Deployment false drop (they deploy almost always first and second)

Warmachine hunter

Redirector (park 1" away from a unit you wish to redirect diagonally away from your lines)

Speed bump Park them in fron of your enemy units. They are sure to break and wipe them but they use up one turn to get them out of the way, just make sure he doesn't get an overrun into your units OR bait him into taking the Overrun for a sure countercharge.

Terrain (put it behind enemy forces you are in close combat with to either destroy them due to not having space to back up or force dangerous terrain checks.

Suicidal Chargers against mages

Line of Sight Blocker

[Dirty Mac]

I would also like to add, that you can use them to push a combat in your favor. For example, adding them in a combo charge, not necessarily to do damage but to add 2
more points of static combat res in addition to any casualties they inflict.

Another awesome tactic is running down fleeing opponents.
There was one game where my High Elf opponent had a unit of 15 white lions fleeing at the end of his turn. At the start of my turn my harpies charged him, If you didn't know, Fleeing units must continue to flee if charged, When harpies charge they have movement 10 and they throw 3d6 taking the 2 highest for charge range, my harpies caught him and ran him down.

[Dalamar]

That first tactic can really backfire on you. Harpies die really FAST, so adding them to combat for even +3 CR (rear charge) can go away if they all die and your opponent scores extra 5 CR.

That is true, harpies are great to hold back, and if one enemy unit reacts to your charge with a flee. You then charge them with harpies who stand a good chance at running them down, or even better off the table.

[Cold73]

Another awesome tactic is running down fleeing opponents.
There was one game where my High Elf opponent had a unit of 15 white lions fleeing at the end of his turn. At the start of my turn my harpies charged him, If you didn't know, Fleeing units must continue to flee if charged, When harpies charge they have movement 10 and they throw 3d6 taking the 2 highest for charge range, my harpies caught him and ran him down.

hmm...another good tip....and a rule i might have forgotten down the years,,, (or i never knew it to begin with)

As for using the harpies as support, and they dying to fast....
Well I dont think you should use them to charge them in the rear. I would prefer to take them in the side...that way they will either get 4 less attacks from the first 2 ranks attacking the main unit...or if they the side decides to focus on the harpies...that will mean you will get 4 less attacks on you main unit.

Now to start collecting my harpies.....and just like a lot of people with me...i dislike the looks standard warhammer harpies.

[Dalamar]

Even in the side, all the opponent needs to do is kill 2 to negate your charge, kill more and that will offset anything the harpies might kill.
They are a very risky prospect for supporting charges.

[Calisson]

Thanks tmarichards for the video.
I had a look to the other two:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tmarichards#p/u
Videos are probably appropriate for youngsters more used to watch than read.
It's good also for foreigners wanting to practice their English.

If you want ideas about more topics to deal with, you certainly can find ideas in the D.R.A.I.C.H., top of tactics forum.


Comments on the videos:

In the first video (19"30), you seem to believe that models shot must be take away from each side of the unit in a balanced manner. This is nowhere a requirement.
In your example, it would be enough to shoot 3 WE for your opponent to remove the 3 on the left of the screen.
That would leave the WE in the side arc of the harpies, where they would clip the BG.


In the second video:
- forest cancels steadfast, so does river (video 14"40).
- Where comes this idea about an obstacle hiding a hydra against a cannonball (video 17"00)?
That's a mistake. Cannonballs are not stopped by obstacles, and cannonball do not destroy obstacles.


The 3rd video lasts close to one hour! That's too long. I did not do it.

I'm not aware of how you can edit videos, hopefully that's feasible.

[Azimyth]

In the first video (19"30), you seem to believe that models shot must be take away from each side of the unit in a balanced manner. This is nowhere a requirement.
In your example, it would be enough to shoot 3 WE for your opponent to remove the 3 on the left of the screen.
That would leave the WE in the side arc of the harpies, where they would clip the BG.

Pg 45, Last line before "Models with more than one wound"

In the second video:
- Where comes this idea about an obstacle hiding a hydra against a cannonball (video 17"00)?
That's a mistake. Cannonballs are not stopped by obstacles, and cannonball do not destroy obstacles.

Pg 113, 5th paragraph

[Tmarichards]

^^ what he said, and why

[Thanee]

hmm...another good tip....and a rule i might have forgotten down the years,,, (or i never knew it to begin with)

One more thing about fleeing.

Charge Reactions are declared and resolved immediately after every Charge Announcement.

So, you can use Harpies to prevent a unit from fleeing just by having them nearby.

Because, if he does not Hold against your (other) charge (by a serious combat unit), he has to flee again, if you declare another charge against the same unit with your Harpies.

Bye
Thanee

[Calisson]

In the first video (19"30), you seem to believe that models shot must be take away from each side of the unit in a balanced manner. This is nowhere a requirement.
In your example, it would be enough to shoot 3 WE for your opponent to remove the 3 on the left of the screen.
That would leave the WE in the side arc of the harpies, where they would clip the BG.

Pg 45, Last line before "Models with more than one wound"

In the second video:
- Where comes this idea about an obstacle hiding a hydra against a cannonball (video 17"00)?
That's a mistake. Cannonballs are not stopped by obstacles, and cannonball do not destroy obstacles.

Pg 113, 5th paragraph

Good catch! I missed those two rules. Good thing I watched your videos! Thanks.