What banner for CoK?
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Author:  Wolfrahm [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  What banner for CoK?

Which banner would you take for a 10 man unit and would you add a character and/or a BSB?

Author:  Sisstros [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:00 pm ]
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Definitely the Always Strikes First Banner for the unit and the Hydra Banner for a BSB.

The ASF banner will give your Knights re-rolls in every round of combat not just the first (against most opponents), and the Cold Ones will get re-rolls to against I2 or less opponents. This will make them much stronger in protracted combats that they otherwise would be.

The Hydra Banner offset the main weakness of Knights, having only 1 attack. Combine that with the extra attack from the Cauldron and it will give each Knight 3 attacks and each Cold One 2. Run the unit ten wide and that is a devastating damage output.

Best of luck.

Author:  Tmarichards [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:02 pm ]
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ASF banner is the only banner really worth taking on them.

I'd always take the Cauldron first over the Hydra Banner BSB, because it's just better. However, if you already have a Cauldron, then the Hydra Banner BSB on top will do. Pretty OTT, but it'll do.

Author:  Dirty Mac [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:00 pm ]
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Isn't it risky to put a master BSB on a CoK?

Author:  Dyvim tvar [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:50 pm ]
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I would go with Standard of Discipline for Ld10 even when not near a Deadlord. Cuts chance of failed Stupidity from 1/6 (1/36 with a reroll) to 1/12 (1/144 with a reroll) which is a pretty big deal since one failure can ruin a game.

Hydra Banner is the way to go if you have a BSB in the unit.

Author:  Dirty Mac [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:11 am ]
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still, Is putting a BSB on a CoK risky?

Author:  Flash29 [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:22 am ]
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Dirty Mac wrote:
still, Is putting a BSB on a CoK risky?

on a cold one? your not putting him on a cold one knight, or do you mean in cold one knights?

Author:  Sisstros [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:34 am ]
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Dirty Mac wrote:
still, Is putting a BSB on a CoK risky?

I sometimes run a unit of 12 Knights with a Hydra Banner BSB.

The BSB has a 1+ armour save but what keeps him alive is that I set the width of the unit at the start of the game to match whatever I really want them to charge into, so that at most only one model will be in diagonal contact with him. The idea is that there will be some nice big hoard units for them to run into and that they will more or less wipe them out in one round.

That's the theory anyway, not that it always works out like that.

Author:  Dirty Mac [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:41 am ]
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Yes, I meant in a unit of CoK's.

Author:  Saintofm [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:56 am ]
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The consensus is the ASF banner of Hag Greif. Having at least 15 S4 attacks hit you first is never a fun thing unless it's you dishing out the hurt.

a Battle Standard Bearing Master armed with a halberd or great weapon, sea dragon Cloak, heavy armor, and on a cold one in any unit is not going to be nice. Have him hold the Hydra banner, and you give your unit another 10 attacks at least (5 from the cold ones, 5 from the lance wielding knights).

The Problem is that it's a first turn of CC only banner, so unless you win combat and drive them off, you are still going to have the problems all heavy cavalry have in extended combat.

While I don't think fear is as bad as people make it out to be (having even a small unit make even a massive unit of badassass reduce their WS to 5 every now and then is still nice to have) you are relying on that and, your 2+ armor for the rest of the brawl.

Author:  Demetrius [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:18 am ]
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ASF all the way on the Knights. If its being used somewhere else, Banner of Murder is useful as well for the AP goodness.

I run a unit of 10 knights with FC and SOHG which comes in at 345 points. They do their job very well and can be a pain for my opponent to kill all of them, which can help deny 345 points. However, this is the reason I dont like putting characters in the unit. They do bring a little more extra damage, but I dont think they warrant the 200 points you have to spend on a Hydra BSB/ Dreadlord. This is why IMO the best thing to do is have a COB behind the unit so it can give them the extra attack, with the added bonus of a 5+ ward available and the ability to give the blessing to any unit that needs it at the time.

Try the unit by itself and with a character in it, and see how it works for you :D

Author:  Sulla [ Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:09 pm ]
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I prefer the ASF banner on big units of knights. You can't guarantee breaking your foe on the charge in 8th edition so anything that boosts their damage output in later phases is a must IMO.

Author:  Ichiyo1821 [ Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:39 am ]
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Banner of Hag Graef best all rounder and compensates for the Heavy Cavalry nerf in 8th edition.

If you have points to spare get HoHG then a Hydra BSB (for 2500 games up)

If you want a second unit, give them Banner of Murder or Banner of Flame.

The rest are either too expensive or lackluster.

Author:  Lord damian valar [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  .

The above answers are really the best indeed.

I have pulled some tricks with the +1 movement banner and the ring of hotek on the champ. Marched them up 16 inch towards the enemy unit containing the lvl 4 wizard. It's risky but has the potential of really ruining your opponents day.

Author:  Deamonclaw [ Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:34 am ]
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most of you reccomend asf banner but i get realy negative results with it tbh, either i just charge trough the enemy in first turn of combat or my CoK die in a long stretched combat.
and i rarely see the bonus of my asf banner coming to real use, they are almost always faster so no yaay asf and the rerolls mostly arent needed after turn 1
so i'm actualy thinking of switching it with banner of murder.

Author:  Lord tsunami [ Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:10 am ]
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flaming is a usefull banner too. cavalry is fairly strong against monsters, and many monsters seem to have regenration, like trolls, ogres (buffed), hydras and HPAs.

I recently gave CoK a second shot in 8th ed (or rather i played several games in a row with them to try them out) and i am currently putting them right back on the shelf :P

Author:  Dangerous Beans [ Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:04 am ]
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For a unit of 10+ Standard of Hag Graef. Units of 6/7 - Banner of Eternal Flame, Units of 6/7 when I know my opponent? Either Gleaming Pennent (need the charge) or Banner of Murder (most non High Elves with good armour saves eg. Warriors of Chaos, Brettonia etc).

If you fielded dual cold one knight units of 6 in each (slightly off topic I know but I'm considering this - one with Hydra Banner BSB the other a Dreadlord with Crimson Death, full armour, 4++ and the other tricksters shard + a Cauldron and other gribblies in the army :D) what 2 magic banners would you choose between these 2 units?

Author:  Omnichron [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:53 am ]
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I don't get the ASF banner on them tbh. We already reroll to hit in the first round, and that's really where the knights should do the damage and break what they charge. Against HE opponents, I can see some reasoning for it, but generallt the Cold one Knights will strike first and get that reroll when they should do the damage they can deal... I might consider ASF banner if I had a master with them which has soulrender.

I'd rather go with the banner of murder on them, although I see the use of that banner even more for my witch elves... I like the fire banner more, even though a hero with dragongem or dragonhelmet would be really bad news for the CoK then.

Author:  Red... [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:35 am ]
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Standard of Discipline. Leadership 10 on a unit that suffers from stupidity is a god send.

I try to avoid my CoKs needing to be in two rounds of combat, so Standard of HG seems unnecessary...

Author:  Omnichron [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:01 am ]
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Yes, Standard of Discipline seems like a much better idea, or even the Gleaming pennant in case you are outside BSB range and fail stupidity test the round you absolutely need to charge.

Author:  Killerk [ Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:33 pm ]
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After doing some intense thinking, only one banner is worth taking on CoK banner of swiftness. It makes getting the drop on you opponent so simple.

Author:  Lorddrittz [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:07 am ]
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I think the Banner you use depends on how you intend to use your Knights.

If you are intending to place the CoK out on a flank outside of BSB range then I would be using one of the following Banners:- Banner of Discipline, Gleaming Pennant or Banner of Cold Blood.

If placing the BSB in the unit of CoK then other options such as Banner of Eternal Flame, Banner of Murder, Hydra Banner and ASF Banner become more viable.

If maneuvering the CoK unit for a flank charge then the Banner of Swiftness may be of use, though the +1" when charging may not be that beneficial.

Author:  Rafapolit [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:23 am ]
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KillerK wrote:
After doing some intense thinking, only one banner is worth taking on CoK banner of swiftness. It makes getting the drop on you opponent so simple.

If you manage to pass stupidity! :)

I myself have always taken the Armour Piercing, not the ASF. But I'm beginning to think the Standard of Discipline is the better idea.


Author:  Killerk [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:03 am ]
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I have no problems passing stupidity as the bsb with hydra banner is also present. The unit comes off at 550 points. It is amazing at what it does. Along with a cob and 30 executioners it is just amzing. The possibility of dishing almost 40 attacks is terryfing. If you look at the link in my signatur youll understand why.

Author:  Lorddrittz [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:08 pm ]
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Why I like the ASF Banner on the COK?

1. You get to strike 1st vs. everything that doesn't have ASF including high Initiative troops such as Dryads, and characters.
2. The Cold One Steeds get a re-roll to hit vs. Ogres Dwarves, TK's, VC's, and other Initiative 2 troops.
3. Striking Simultaneously with HE's, Grimgor, etc...
4. The riders get Re-rolls to hit every round of combat similar to the Black Guard.
5. Characters will get to strike in Initiative order if using GW's or Magic GW's.

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