Just a couple questions

Vvriter47 · Post by **Vvriter47** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:03 pm

First question: The Reaper Bolt Thrower has two firing modes; what are the pros and cons of each mode and when should they be used?

Second question: Does magic resistance (1-3) on a Sorceress help at all with miscasts?

Tyrannus deathbringer · Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:39 pm

On Bolt Throwers

- almost always use the multi-shot; it is more reliable killing power (6 x S4, -2AS). 6 chances to hit, 6 chances to wound vs 1 chance to hit, 1 chance of D3 wounds.

- single shot is only worth it in special circumstances i.e. (i) a high armour save character out in the open (ii) if you only have a target at long range or (iii) are willing to gamble on trying to take D3 wounds off a monster/heavily armoured foe.

Taijushue · Post by **Taijushue** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:59 pm

-another good target for single bolt would be the flank of a unit of monsterous cavalry

On MR and miscast

-it doesn't help, i believe MR says something like "magic missles and direct damage" or "damaging spells" i'm at work so dont have my book next to me, will double check when i get home unless someone confirms it before.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:11 pm

Page 5 of the rule book FAQ:

Q: Is damage caused by a miscast counted as a spell? Can a model
with Magic Resistance add it to its ward save against it? Is any
damage caused counted as being caused by the Wizard? (p34)
A: No to all questions.

Hope that helps for the miscast question.

Vvriter47 · Post by **Vvriter47** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:54 pm

Sure does! Thanks everyone!

Vvriter47 · Post by **Vvriter47** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:28 pm

How useful is a Bolt Thrower against a Slann-less army of Lizardmen?

Flash29 · Post by **Flash29** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:58 pm

VVriter47 wrote:How useful is a Bolt Thrower against a Slann-less army of Lizardmen?

salamanders multibolt or singlebolt stegadons. it also works well against cold one riders

Lord tsunami · Post by **Lord tsunami** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:50 am

i wrote an article way back that can offer a little insight on the RBT thing. however, it is not exactly meant for this purpose so it is not 100% relevant.

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p=822904#822904

Tyrannus deathbringer · Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:07 pm

Nice article, Tsunami.

Taijushue made a good point about single-shotting the flank of monstrous cavalry. As these beast are becoming more and more common in 8th, I wondered what the mathhammer vs these worked out as? (Question not addressed to you, just thinking out loud and too lazy to work it out for myself

)

Post by **Calisson** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:53 pm

I studied the RBT once back in 7th ed:
Druchii Naval Fire support: the RBT.
As the tables for wounding did not change with 8th edition, most of the conclusions are still valid.
Here they are:

Against a single target, simplified rule:
Just multishoot everything except T6 monsters with armour.

Against a single target, The Rule of "Multi Four, Single Five":
Add the Toughness and the Wounds of the target (the higher, the harder).
Subtract its Armour Save (the higher, the easier).
The higher the total, the harder the target!
If the result is 4 or less, multi shoot. If it is 5 or more, single shoot.

Example:
An Empire Captain (T4, 2W) with 1+ save: 4+2-1=5, single shoot. If he is already wounded, multi shoot.
Check: 6 S4 multi shots on T4 result in 3 AP2 wounds, among which 1 get across the 1+ armour.

Against ranked targets, simplified rule:
multishoot always.

Against ranked targets, comprehensive study:
Against anything with ward save or regeneration, always multishoot!
For other targets, as a rule of the thumb, the formula of the Rule of Multi Four, Single Five, remains valid. You just consider the cumulated number of wounds in the rank you could shoot.

Example: Empire knights, T3, 1 wound x 3 ranks, (minus) save 1: total = 3 + 1x3 – 1 = 5 => single shoot.
Example: Tin can dwarves, T4, 1 wound x 4 ranks, (minus) save 4: total = 4 + 1x4 – 4 = 4 => multi shoot.

Tyrannus deathbringer · Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:25 pm

Cheers Calisson

So versus a unit of Demi-Chickens this would be:

Chickens, T4, 3 wounds x 1 rank (minus) save 1: total = 4 + 3x1 - 1 = 6 single shoot

Chickens, T4, 3 wounds x 4 ranks {i.e. exposed flank} (minus) save 1: total = 4 + 3x4 - 1 = 15 single shoot(!)

am I doing it right?

Vvriter47 · Post by **Vvriter47** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:15 pm

Another quick question: If I have a unit of 20 Corsairs and equip them with the Sea Serpent Standard, and then a Dreadlord/DE Master joins them, does the character also have frenzy?

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:23 pm

Yes. As long as a character is part of the unit he gets the same effects the standard has on said unit.

This applies to all magic banners as well.

Taijushue · Post by **Taijushue** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:20 pm

did some quick math on hitting the flank of a T4 MC unit. not sure what i common for the size of these so i did it based on a unit of 1 rank of 3 guys

----------------------------------------------
if at short range:
hitting on 3's
wound first guy on 2's 55.55% chance
wounding second guy 37.04% chance
wounding third 18.52% chance

odds of killing all 3 in 1 round: .6%
----------------------------------------------
at long range:

hitting on 4's
wounding first guy 41.67%
wound second 27.78%
third 13.89%

odds of killing all in 1 round: .5%
--------------------------------------------

Tyrannus deathbringer · Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:22 pm

I just got round to reading all of the DRAICH article above by Calisson.

Absolutely awesome round-up!

@Taijushue - thanks for the math. Even though the chance of killing a whole unit is exceedingly slim the odds of killing one MC outright are pretty good. Definitely worth a single shot, exposed flank or not.

PS just read that the chick's are actually T3.

Post by **Calisson** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:30 pm

Thanks.

With my rule of the thumb, demi-chickens deserve a single shot no matter how many, indeed - unless they got the ward save against warmachines.

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:56 pm

From what I've used with mine, single shot monsters and occasionally high armor. Against empire cavalry single shot as while the -2 armor penalty just isn't enough against Knights from Empire or Chaos Warriors they have too high a defense. Brettonian's still have a 2+, but the -2 makes their save work only half the time.

However against lightly armored or moderatly armored troops (4-6+) the 6 shot is perfect. At least 2 in small games. In higher games, I haven't been able to use as I only have 2 BUT the general consensus as many as you can take if you take them. SO like real artillery back in the day: best in mass.

Vvriter47 · Post by **Vvriter47** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:05 pm

I just finished assembling my first complete unit of Dark Riders. What are some simple tips for a new player to use them effectively? I saw the other thread "Dark Riders do it better" but honestly, I'm not 100% confident on the rules to employ those sorts of tactics yet, and I only have one unit. I just want to know: is it worth taking full command and what are some simple tricks to using them?

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:49 pm

The only time you ever give Dark Riders full command is when you are running them about 20+ strong with shields in the medium cavalry role. The rest of the time, a musician is all you need.

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:54 pm

The easiest way to use Dark Riders is to know the average cavalry unit flees 9" (it's actually 8.7 but think or it as 9") while non-cavalry charge distances are 7". That means when you place your Dark Riders in front of a unit you want them to flee from, they should be 5.5" plus the enemy's base move away from them to have a reasonable chance to get away. So if you wanted to stall an enemy unit of Empire Swordsmen that have a base move of 4", you'd place the Dark Riders at least 5.5+4=9.5" away and expect them to get away when charged. Then on your turn they can rally and do it all over again!

Lordn00b · Post by **Lordn00b** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:41 pm

I have a question - which lore on skaven (assuming you know you are fighting them)

Fire - good against the low toughness infantry, but for the most part you don't want to be fighting these as they just get in the way, only his horrible nasty models.
Shadow - not great for killing anything on it's own but will help your guys out a tonne.
Death - Usually great for killing stuff, but they have fairly high initiative, not nearly as good as purple sunning a TK player (mwahahaha)
Metal - against unarmoured skaven...really?
Dark - Some groovy spells, but nothing that is going to make a huge difference.

I would tend to go towards death as I can try and snipe the ridiclous numbers of wizards, but what would you guys go for?

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:53 pm

Versus Skaven I almost always take Dark magic. Chillwind is great for those pesky weapon teams, Word of Pain will swing one combat your way, and two spells that strike entire units is always a bonus. Can't go wrong with Dark magic!

Lordn00b · Post by **Lordn00b** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:39 pm

Quick question:

The rules state that on a roll of less than three the wizard has broken concentration and cannot cast any more spells. The words used quote "the natural score" of the dice, hence no modifiers. However, since the sac dag gives extra dice, can it be used to prevent this?

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:01 pm

LordN00B wrote:However, since the sac dag gives extra dice, can it be used to prevent this?

I don't remember the exact text from the dagger right here (or whether it was from the FAQ), but from what I remember: Yes.

It says it is added as a powerdice (which means you can get irresistable force from it as well).

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:33 am

Yes.

In fact, if you ever roll a single dice and get a 2 with the sacrificial dagger lady then stabbing a model for an extra dice is a very good idea. If you get just a 1 though, there is a 16.66% chance you will roll another 1 for the second dice, meaning you still fail. Usually still worth doing, but fairly risky.

The tactic is quite commonplace. A lot of folk (me included) will cast power of darkness on one dice as their first spell with the level 4 dagger lady. If I roll a 1 or a 2 I will definitely stab another model, if I roll a 3 or more it depends on how many dispel dice my opponent has and how many power dice I have.

The only time to be wary about stabbing another guy is if you already have a six rolled in a high total. At that stage you have a 16.66% chance of getting an IF, which you don't always want. If you have a low casting total and your opponent has a lot of dice and you really want the spell to get cast, then throwing the extra dice makes a lot of sense (aim for that IF baby!), but if you are already very high and are probably going to get the cast anyway, it can be worth holding off to avoid the risk of bad things happening to your poor lass.