What do you consider cheese? DE army only
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- Lostshadow
- Dark Rider
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 10:35 am
What do you consider cheese? DE army only
Ive been trying a lot of new lists recently and am trying to avoid the cheesy ones.
Obvious pendent of khaleth I see as cheesy.
The stubborn dreadloard build to hold up a unit for the whole game, used this once (in my battle report on here) and felt it was too boring to play that way.
I like the mage level 1 using all dice to cast a spell, I dont see that as cheesy as you are risking points to get a more or less gurrenteed spell off and there are far more cheesy ways with other armies (book of hoath HE) of getting spells of with far less risk.
Please include spell tailoring (rolling for level 4 first, then rolling a duplicate with level 1 so can choose spell and to sacrifce them when needed to use all dice on spell, include this in using all power dice choice on poll)
So vote for what you think is the most cheesy in the poll
Please think 2500pts or less
Obvious pendent of khaleth I see as cheesy.
The stubborn dreadloard build to hold up a unit for the whole game, used this once (in my battle report on here) and felt it was too boring to play that way.
I like the mage level 1 using all dice to cast a spell, I dont see that as cheesy as you are risking points to get a more or less gurrenteed spell off and there are far more cheesy ways with other armies (book of hoath HE) of getting spells of with far less risk.
Please include spell tailoring (rolling for level 4 first, then rolling a duplicate with level 1 so can choose spell and to sacrifce them when needed to use all dice on spell, include this in using all power dice choice on poll)
So vote for what you think is the most cheesy in the poll
Please think 2500pts or less
Last edited by Lostshadow on Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
most of that isn't cheese or the combination isn't cheese
2 hydra's are cheese as are 30 corsairs or witchelves with shadowlvl 4 in a unit of powerd...warriors (sac dagger) anything that seems pretty much broken can be considered cheese.
ow and you can only take 4 reapers under 3000 points, and they suck
and now i look again even the number 1 choice isn't cheese, the build is flawed you don't combine cloak of hag greaf with pendant, or you'll see your pendant weakend
dragonhelm is what you take
2 hydra's are cheese as are 30 corsairs or witchelves with shadowlvl 4 in a unit of powerd...warriors (sac dagger) anything that seems pretty much broken can be considered cheese.
ow and you can only take 4 reapers under 3000 points, and they suck
and now i look again even the number 1 choice isn't cheese, the build is flawed you don't combine cloak of hag greaf with pendant, or you'll see your pendant weakend
dragonhelm is what you take
- Lostshadow
- Dark Rider
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Cheese depends on the opponent.
Anything that the opponent has extreme trouble to beat is cheese.
It can be either because of the opponent's list or because of the opponent himself.
I.e. when you face an excellent general with an average army or an average general with a powerful army, nothing above is cheese.
When you're facing a rookie general, or if he selects an army for the fluff rather than for the win, or if your opponent is limited in the models he can take, then anything above is cheesy.
Anything that the opponent has extreme trouble to beat is cheese.
It can be either because of the opponent's list or because of the opponent himself.
I.e. when you face an excellent general with an average army or an average general with a powerful army, nothing above is cheese.
When you're facing a rookie general, or if he selects an army for the fluff rather than for the win, or if your opponent is limited in the models he can take, then anything above is cheesy.
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- Dreadlord on pegasus, crown of command, pendent of khaleth, cloak of hag grief: Yes (Why bother playing at all? May as well just declare you've won and go home) (I'm assuming you mean Dawnstone rather than Cloak of HG here...)
- Using all power dice on level 1 wizard to get a spell off at a crucial moment and risking her life: No (a bit cheeky, but not cheesy)
- 2 hydras, dragon dreadlord, 6 chariots and 3 masters on pegasus: Yes (the funny thing is how many people think they are being original and cool when they run this set up...'no way, dude, no one ever thought about spamming giant monsters in a dark elf list before...Zzzzz')
- Sorceress with sword of battle, dragon egg and pendent of Khaleth OR talisman of preservation in frenzied corsairs: No (why would this be cheesy?)
- Sorceress on pegasus, ring of hotek, earthing rod to charge enemies in turn 1 and miscast herself to death to destroy a high points unit: No (too hard to pull off reliably)
- Strikes first banner on execuitoners: No (no, it is strong but definitely beatable)
- 6 Reapers, mass xbows and magic heavy: No (boring, but not cheesy)
- Level 4 wizard, 5 level 1 fireball battlemages: No (just kinda odd)
- Using all power dice on level 1 wizard to get a spell off at a crucial moment and risking her life: No (a bit cheeky, but not cheesy)
- 2 hydras, dragon dreadlord, 6 chariots and 3 masters on pegasus: Yes (the funny thing is how many people think they are being original and cool when they run this set up...'no way, dude, no one ever thought about spamming giant monsters in a dark elf list before...Zzzzz')
- Sorceress with sword of battle, dragon egg and pendent of Khaleth OR talisman of preservation in frenzied corsairs: No (why would this be cheesy?)
- Sorceress on pegasus, ring of hotek, earthing rod to charge enemies in turn 1 and miscast herself to death to destroy a high points unit: No (too hard to pull off reliably)
- Strikes first banner on execuitoners: No (no, it is strong but definitely beatable)
- 6 Reapers, mass xbows and magic heavy: No (boring, but not cheesy)
- Level 4 wizard, 5 level 1 fireball battlemages: No (just kinda odd)
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- Dalamar
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It's totally cheesy because Morathi can't use Lore of Death, she's a Dark Magic Loremistress.
And neither of the above is cheesy.
I don't consider unit choices cheesy but there are indeed cheesy tactics.
Like for example a unit of 5BG in a conga line, with 2+ AS champion in front holding the line against nearly any size of an S3 unit.
And neither of the above is cheesy.
I don't consider unit choices cheesy but there are indeed cheesy tactics.
Like for example a unit of 5BG in a conga line, with 2+ AS champion in front holding the line against nearly any size of an S3 unit.
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- Lostshadow
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The reason that taking 1 level 4 wizard (fire) and 5 level 1 fire mages is as follows:
You also take sacrifical dagger on level 4
One sorceress takes darkstar cloak
another takes chanelling staff.
Even if you get lets say 6 dice in the magic phase.
All have power of darkness as default spell.
Each casts power of darkness untill 12 dice are owned.
each uses 2 dice on level 2 fireball (5 wizards = up to five attempts) on average you get off 2-3 castings with 2D6 hits at longer than 24" range. And you still have 1 or 2 power of darkness castings left so another 1 or 2 attemptts at casting fire spells with the additional D3 fireball signature making it easier to cast them.
Thats something like 3 - 6 castings of fireball per turn at 2D6. Most armies will be decimated by that. Thats providing you dont lose dice from miscasts, but then you just cast power of darkness and get those power dice back until all wizards have cast power of darkness.
You also take sacrifical dagger on level 4
One sorceress takes darkstar cloak
another takes chanelling staff.
Even if you get lets say 6 dice in the magic phase.
All have power of darkness as default spell.
Each casts power of darkness untill 12 dice are owned.
each uses 2 dice on level 2 fireball (5 wizards = up to five attempts) on average you get off 2-3 castings with 2D6 hits at longer than 24" range. And you still have 1 or 2 power of darkness castings left so another 1 or 2 attemptts at casting fire spells with the additional D3 fireball signature making it easier to cast them.
Thats something like 3 - 6 castings of fireball per turn at 2D6. Most armies will be decimated by that. Thats providing you dont lose dice from miscasts, but then you just cast power of darkness and get those power dice back until all wizards have cast power of darkness.
rolling a power of darkness on 1 dice means 1/3 chance of breaking concentration which means of the 5 lvl 1's at least one possibly 2 will waste those powerdice. your lvl ones only get their lvl on the first spell making it easy to dispel any attempt even with a lvl 2 let alone a lvl 4. on a fireball, using 2 dice "although you probably mean 3 since its the average of power of darkness" would be insufficient in most cases, needing a 9 and rolling on average a 7.
not to mention the fact that you have half your army tied up in pretty mediocre magic, meaning anything with a more magic resilient build ( like my cauldron + knights with magic resistance 3) or even just decent saves will blast through you.
admittadly, against wood elves this would be annoying. Then again having increasted tougness takes away allot of the effectivness of a fireball.
in the end your limiting your casting and damage output, by taking very expencive sorcerreses and relying on a spell that could do damage, also miscast twice on the 8 result i believe wil make you a very sad player indeed, and with all those seperate castings, theres a definate chance.
not to mention the fact that you have half your army tied up in pretty mediocre magic, meaning anything with a more magic resilient build ( like my cauldron + knights with magic resistance 3) or even just decent saves will blast through you.
admittadly, against wood elves this would be annoying. Then again having increasted tougness takes away allot of the effectivness of a fireball.
in the end your limiting your casting and damage output, by taking very expencive sorcerreses and relying on a spell that could do damage, also miscast twice on the 8 result i believe wil make you a very sad player indeed, and with all those seperate castings, theres a definate chance.