Need help agiants WC cheese army

Pragda · Post by **Pragda** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:05 am

Hello guys! Yesterday i fought agiants WC everything went really went, till round 3 where he's 3 terrorgheist where in position ! They moved just in front of mé alle 3 ! Wien he sreamed at mé my 600 p dragon Lord died, and my 2 war hydras, just in one round! Them i Woud have charges but bat swarms keept mé from Them, next round hé killed my chariot, COb, and 8 Black guards, and then i gave up, ihad 12 BG left 10x3 Dark riders and 30 exe hé stilles had he's hold army.

Please give mé some advice i tried firering the purpose Sun at the side of Them miscast and a bad Roll it dident touch Them and my wizzard died

Thanks

!

Pragda · Post by **Pragda** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:18 am

Ups forgot to Tell hé had 600 zombies in 100 vide, as a Wall to protect the terorgheistes :/

Jal · Post by **Jal** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:39 am

You telling me he had 1800 points of Zombies in 1 unit?

Try playing with some form of comp perhaps.....

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:48 am

It's important to forget the zombies in such a match. You need to take them down eventually if he moves in, but your goal should be to kill the terrorgheists, and make those you don't fokus on, less of a threat.

- Your dragon should stay all the way back so that the terrorgheists can't get to him without having to run out from the zombie lines.
- Use death signature spell. Even consider having a second sorceress lvl 2 with death on a steed (I guess you used that list you posted the other day). If you roll 7 PD, you should be able to cast both at 24 range and take down one terrorgheist for each spell you get through.
- Fokus your shots on the terrorgheists. Even though they might not be able to take it down, the combined shots should damage it enough to make the scream less of a threat. As they are big targets, they won't gain cover by a zombie wall.
- When you have killed or damaged the terrorgheists enough, then you can bring your dragon and lord into the fray. Bring him in against the general and try to kill him off. Get the BSB as well, and you should have got enough points to win the game.

If you find yourself in need to take those zombies down, I would suggest a combined charge and use all dices to get soulblight thrgough.... however with such a high number of zombies, it'll take forever to chew through them... they are 1800 points though, so if you get your executioners spread out all the way and have +1 attack on them!

My 21 Witch Elves chew through about a 100 zombies in a match, loosing just a few in the process. What about Witch elves 100 wide...

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:44 am

Six Reaper Bolt Throwers on a hill ought to shut him up. Terrorgeists become less powerful when they lose wounds, and they only have a 6+ regen save, so they are fairly easy to kill with missile fire.

Unfortunately, though, you'd need more than 100 witches to deal with the zombies head on, that's because:

300 attacks, hitting on 3s = 150 hits and 50 wounds (from poison)
100 hatred re-rolls, hitting on 3s = 55 hits and 11 wounds (from poison)
205 hits, wounding on 4s = 103 wounds
205 wounds plus 50 wounds from poison = 255 dead

He gets 300 attacks back
Hitting on 5s = 100 hits
Wounding on 4s = 50 dead

Next round
50 Witch Elves remain versus 345 zombies
150 attacks, hitting on 3s = 75 hits and 25 wounds
75 hits, wounding on 4s = 38 wounds
38 wounds plus the 25 zombie wounds = 63 wounds

He now gets 282 attacks back
Hitting on 5s = 94 hits
Wounding on 4s = 47 dead

3 Witch Elves remain versus 282 Zombies...

Setomidor · Post by **Setomidor** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Sorry red but your math is flawed:

Code: Select all

300 attacks, hitting on 3s = 150 hits and 50 wounds (from poison) 
100 hatred re-rolls, hitting on 3s = 50 hits and 16 wounds (from poison) 
200 hits, wounding on 4s = 100 wounds 
100 wounds plus 67 wounds from poison = 167 dead 

He gets 300 attacks back 
Hitting on 5s = 100 hits 
Wounding on 4s = 50 dead

Witch Elves wins combat with 114, for a total of 281 dead. From here on, it's all down hill for the Zombies, and the Witches soon die.

Why not simply get a Master on a Steed with Dawnstone and Sword of Might? That's the only thing he needs, and for ~150 pts you got someone who would be able to stay in combat with the Zombies without dying for the rest of the game. Remeber the Terrorgheists can not scream into a combat they're not fighting in (at least not until an FAQ is released).

Also, is this the 2400 pts list you posted in the other thread? There is no way he can get 600 Zombies, Bat Swarms and 3 Terrorgheist in at 2400 pts.

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:56 pm

@ Red: Well, the witch elves was just a fun little thing that I'd never do, but I also think the maths would be better for the witch elves as it would be natural to use Cauldron on them.

It would be
- 400 attacks, ~267 hits where ~67 is poison
- 133 rerolls, ~89 hits ehere ~15 is poison
- 137 out of the 274 will wound, + 82 poisons
= 219 dead zombies

Which means that they'll still strike back with 300 and 50 dead witch elves. However the combat resolutions means that the zombies will loose with 210, which means the first round of combat is 388 dead zombies

50 witch elves vs 212 Zombies left... that looks alot better :p

Edit: Fixed calculations as I forgot to remove poison hits

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:56 pm

Ah, my apologies, I forgot about crumble.

Yes, Omnichron. I was thinking over lunch about that - it could be boosted further by a DH BSB with Hydra Banner in their midst

Setomidor: The master would flee in that scenario after multiple break tests due to static combat res on the Zombies part.

Setomidor · Post by **Setomidor** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:05 pm

It would be
- 400 attacks, ~267 hits where ~67 is poison
- 133 rerolls, ~89 hits ehere ~15 is poison
- 178 out of the 356 will wound, + 82 poisons
= 260 dead zombies

You're counting the poison wounds as hits too, its 356 hits in total of which 82 is poison = 219 dead zombies with cauldron buff.

@Red: yeah, but you also happen to count the hits as wounds

About the master: Zombies have 4 static CR (assuming Standard), but the Master should inflict at least 2 wounds per turn. If he's also BSB (why not?), he would be standing on 8 with Reroll every turn.

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:22 pm

Setomidor wrote:You're counting the poison wounds as hits too, its 356 hits in total of which 82 is poison = 219 dead zombies with cauldron buff.

*Smacks my head* Yeah, I had to forget that again of course! Fixed it up in my last post now.

Anyways, I don't think the flying master would be good, because if you fail the charge or don't get the charge you need, you will end up as terrorfood the next round. You can't move him outside any of your own units either with those terrorgheists around....

Forget the zombies, take down the rest... If you have a spear elf group of 40 with 8 ranks, they will hold the zombies the entire game most likely. But then the point of the fast moving army would be kinda gone. The executioners can also hold off that way.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:48 pm

@Red: yeah, but you also happen to count the hits as wounds

Did I? I don't think I did...

E.g. I said 300 attacks on 3s = 150 hits and 50 wounds. It's actually 200 hits, but 1 in 6 of the dice would be 6s - so 150 hits and 50 wounds. Bang on surely?

Re-rolling on 8 is dangerous. Why not make it a dreadlord and give him the Crown if you're going to go down that route...

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:25 pm

The fastest way to deal with zombies, if you manage to get it through that is, is the Withering + Soulstealer combo... without doubt.

If you get average withering (2) and the soulsteal, you should kill (on average) 500 zombies. With one line of 100 zombies, your executioners should kill them off easily.

The drawback is that you of course have to change the list to include a lvl 4 and lvl 2 with furion (Or two lvl 4's) to have a good chance of getting the combo and getting the spells through...

Setomidor · Post by **Setomidor** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:28 pm

205 hits, wounding on 4s = 103 wounds
205 wounds plus 50 wounds from poison = 255 dead

In that part

I'm not sure why they have to be dealt with at all, I would probably just try to stall them and kill the rest of the army

Lord tsunami · Post by **Lord tsunami** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:58 pm

600 zombies vs 40 spearelves = win for the elves tbh. then you have used 300 points to tie up his 1800 points. your other 2100 points can now go and kill his other 600 points (ok, you obviously play more points than 2400 but you catch my drift)

terrogheist obviously hurt characters and monsters, but they cant do much versus infantry. you will lose a few models per turn. no big deal tbh. just pick a suitable terrogheist and kill it with magic and shooting (remember they wont get cover from the zombies). you got this in the bag tbh. that is not a cheesy army, it is a bad army, it just looks stange.

ps. yes soulstealer ftw

EDIT: the maths from 100 witches becomes:

167 kills with hatred
125 kills without hatred
222 kills with hatred AND cauldron (i mean, you arent gonna use it on another unit are you?

)
167 wounds without hatred but with cauldron

the zombies should kill around 50 witches in return though, so you will win the combat by only 170. hence another 170 zombies dies. he is down to 200 zombies vs 50 witches.

you will now do roughly 84 wounds on him. lets say he reformed to get more than 3 ranks, so he can fight back with 52x3= 156 attacks. he does another 26 wounds. you win by about 60, so another 60 zombies dies. you now have 24 witches against 56 zombies.

next round it will all be over tbh. 24 witches owns 56 zombies

pps. i do not recommend this strategy, i just like doing maths