Hey guys! I was thinking about the Hydra, and how good it is for its points. Most players will call it broken or at least severely underpriced, and I'm sure most of you DE players will agree that it's really, really good.
So how much would you be willing to pay for it, in its current form? Points-wise that is.
I'd say that at 250p it would still be good. Maybe even 250p and lose Hatred. It's just so...good!
But then I'm not super experienced, so I'm asking you! What do you guys think is reasonable, and what is the maximum amount of points you'd pay to field it?
I would pay around 250 for it, but it would have to come with Hatred at that price. I dont know how many time I have rolled 6 or 7 misses with him and had the Hatred save me. If he was going to lose Hatred then I would pay around 220-225.
I quess it depends on how many points my list is. I would prolly bring one instead of 2 in anything less than 2500 if they cost 250. Dont get me wrong, my hydras have won games by themselves but there are so many insta-kills in the meta.
In 7th ed, it should have been 250. In 8th? 200 seems fair. It's very easy to dispose of these days (fire attacks are far more common and their effect on regen far more devastating, and quite honestly a simple 2d6 fireball or two will eat it without too much effort, as will initiative based spells), its breath attack is weakened (yes, no partials is nice, but once per game is a big loss) and loss of forest walking is a further detriment. These are all good occurrences - the hydra in 7th ed was way overpowered, but I certainly wouldn't pay more than 200 points for it now (actually, I don't take any in my lists at all, as I think chariots are far better value: indicating I won't even pay 175 for it!)
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Hatred makes the hydra so much better. Without it, the current price wouldn't be that far off the mark. I guess I'd say it cost 190-200 pts without hatred. No way that I'd pay 250 for it as it is today and without hatred.
The Hydra is good, but alot of things can and will kill it. Making it expensive as well, means that it won't be picked at all... I hope GW will think it through several times when they make it more expensive (As they will).
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything." Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
My Hydra has a habbit of dying first / second turn, so Ive found myself using it less and less these days. Its only good if it can get into a nice juicy block of infantry and smash it over a couple of combat phases, but it rarely makes it into those blocks nowadays because of the prevalance of warmachines / Shadow magic.
So I think its pretty well priced at the moment for its potential damage ability. 175 is probably a fair thing to pay without Hatred, 190-200 with Hatred.
I would go up to about 225 under the current rules. In other words, I would be willing to have to lose a small unit of harpies. But I would start looking at other options if it was more points than that.
Demetrius: yes, that has been my experience too. People tell me constantly that it's still worth the points, even then, but two hydras lost or crippled by turn 2 is still 350 points wasted.
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One hydra be plenty fer me in most moderate (2k - 2.4k) games. As people say - most opponents come prepared with fire magic, flaming cannons/bolt throwers, burning blades and flame banners: its so tricky to deal with regen creatures, though the regeners do still pack a punch if you get them stuck in nice and quick: I find the trick is often to run the hydra up, use its flame template first by breathing over the unit and then let the hydra be charged!
Anyway, sorry off on a ramble there! Cost wise I'd say 200 - 220 with no hatred and maybe 240-250 with it
Why not 200 standard, and hatred as an upgrade? The Empire Griffon already comes with a pair of them (one gives them the ability to rerole enemy terror and fear checks they make on the turn he charges them, and the other gives it a chomp attack).
I think the general trend is to reduce points cost steam tank is down 50 points for example.
The Hydra is excellent for 175 but if it was much more expensive I think I would struggle to fit it into an army. 250 points goes a long way, and for something that you will lose before it gets into combat at least half the time I think it's a bit much.
Sisstros wrote:I think the general trend is to reduce points cost steam tank is down 50 points for example.
The Hydra is excellent for 175 but if it was much more expensive I think I would struggle to fit it into an army. 250 points goes a long way, and for something that you will lose before it gets into combat at least half the time I think it's a bit much.
I havn't lost mine before CC before, and it's been hit by organ guns and great cannons (although I did kill a friend's with two bolt thrower shots so I can see where you are going).
It's not cannons and organ guns that scare hydras though, it's fire magic (including lore of metal), initiative based spells and massed volley fire from missile troops equipped with the flaming banner (or even just firing at the beast after it has been wounded by a flaming weapon earlier in that phase...)
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@ red cannon suck aswell, at least dwarf cannons..and bolt throwers if they use the firesomething rune. It''s rathers cheap IIRC.So why not! My dwarf opponent always makes sure he has at least one WM geared up with it.
Red... wrote:It's not cannons and organ guns that scare hydras though, it's fire magic (including lore of metal), initiative based spells and massed volley fire from missile troops equipped with the flaming banner (or even just firing at the beast after it has been wounded by a flaming weapon earlier in that phase...)
Light magic is nasty too -- boosted signature spell does strength 6 flaming hits, which will make any hydra cry. Banishment is no joke either.
