3 basic strategies of using magic effectively
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:35 am
Hello Everyone.
Introduction
Lets face it: Magic wins warhammer games!
With the inclusion of strong game winning magic lores in the 8th ed BRB and the 2d6 powerdice (+more) it is no surprise that the effectlve use or defense against magic wins games.
Therefore its very important to use you magic in such a way to get the most out of it! Hence, the focus of this thread is to present my thoughts and hopefully start a fruitfull discussion on the effective use of magic to win games, not so much to defend against enemy magic. Other threads do that very well.
I normally play in a comped environment with ETC restrictions on magic, or similar. This influences my view on things, but i will do my best to look beyond that fact.
Most of what is in this post is tacit knowledge for at least many who often attend tournaments. The idea is to verbalize and share this, and improve it for everyone.
The three approaches
As i see it, there are 3 basic strategies to get an effective magic phase:
* "The All in one basket approach"
* "The 1-2 Punch"
* "The Trickle approach"
Your aim each magic round is to get of key spells and or draw out his dispel scroll as early as possible, so you can get of your imporant game winning spell later in the game.
What not to do:
In most cases you can expect your opponent to dispel your biggest and most threatening spell with his dispell dice each magic phase.
So you should not throw most of you dice at a single key spell, see it dispelled and throw you last couple of dice at a small insignificant spell. The result being you only get a small insignificant spell of each round.
In stead try something different:
"The All in One Basket Approach"
Well this is a very straight forward approach giving the fact the DE sorceress can throw as many dice as you have at a given spell. Since you will in most circumstances have more PD than your opponent has DP, simply throw all your dice at the key spell. It is very unlikely that he will be able to dispel it with dice, leaving him with 2 options. Eat your key spell, or use a scroll.
All in all you stand a good chance to either get of your one key spell or draw out his dispel scroll.
If you use this strategy often, dont expect your mage to survive long though
I dont have much to say about this strategy. It can be effective, but in most circumstances I won't recommend using this strategy as you sole approach.
If you do, one way to do it would be lv 1-2 fire/metal mage with PoK, and usually throwing all your dice at an appropriatly boosted signature spell. PoK to give you some protection vs miscasts. What you lack though is the proper key spells to win the game, and it cannot be used in many comped tournamenst ETC for instance.
This is a very basic strategy and can be compared with delivering a huge chop with a greatsword which just powers through your enemies defenses.
Nothing subtle or covert about it. But can be effective.
"The 1-2 Punch"
If you accept the fact that your most important spell will be dispelled by your opponents dice each magic round. You focus naturally shifts from "what is the biggest baddest most important spell i can use this magic phase" to "What is the 2nd most important spell i can cast this magic phase".
That shift is very important. And you should always keep this in mind when selecting what spells to cast in each magic phase. "Since my opponent dispels my most important spell this turn, what is the 2nd key spell to get off in this magic phase?"
What does this mean? Well in most cases its much more effective to cast 2 equally important (key) spell rather than a single key spell with 1-2 minor spell with little to no effect.
One of the reasons shadow magic is so good, is because it can work very well with the 1-2 punch strategy.
Lets take an example.
You are in a critical part of the game with a game deciding close combat in progress. It is your turn. You have a shadow mage with mindrazor, withering, enfeebling foe and miasma.
Well my suggestion would be to make sure to cast 2 key spells. In this situation it would be to split your dice towards withering and either mindrazor or enfeebling foe (Dagger / No dagger), instead of most on mindrazor, a couple on miasma.
If you use the 1-2 approach the net effect will be a gamechanging withering/enfeeblement as apposed to a lackluster miasma.
If you accept the fact that the 1-2 punch is one of the most effective ways to structure your magic phase, the next question of course becomes. How to I make sure i have 2 key spells in each magic phase. More on that later..
You can compare the 1-2 punch with a skilled swordsman making 2 important and debilitating attacks against an opponent who can only parry one attack. Therefore he makes sure the 2 attacks are both key attacks, leaving your opponent in a lose, lose situation.
"The Trickle Approach"
The trickle approach is to quite simply to overwhelm you opponents magic defense with many low cast spells. Each spell cast in itself may not be gamechanging, but when you get 2,3 or even 4 lesser spells get through each round. In the longer run your magic will be very effective.
This is a strategy that DEs do very well (Especially with the help of Sacrificial Dagger).
As with the 1-2 punch, the idea is to make sure you opponent does not have a single key spell to dispel each magic phase, but instead throw many smaller spells, where some of them will get through. This has the added bonus of being very difficult if not impossible to defend against even with dispel scrolls. Because you leave your opponent with no solid spell to use his scroll against.
A good start to a trickle approach is to include a lv4 with dark and sac dagger, i would recommend at least another spell caster though, as the lv4 will have trouble using all your PD, and to make sure you have key spells both at range but also in CC.
If you build your magic with the trickle approach in mind you can have a very potent magic phase, which is very reliable and very difficult to defend against.
For instance, with 7-8 PD it is not uncommon to get off Chillwind (doing damage, and rendering an opponents shooting unit unable to respond), Word of Pain (to either protect a vulnerable CC unit or cripple another shooting unit) and Bladewind (to take out an enemy warmachine) while your opponent dispels Black Horror and Spirit Leech. But the 3 spells you got through his defenses have a great effect on the game.
The Trickle approach can be compared to a musketeer attacking with a flurry of blows. The defender can't parry all attacks, and even though each attack does not win the fight on its own, you will get several though his defenses, each attack weakening your opponent until your final strike to end the battle.
Spell Selection
Now all the above is fine and dandy, but it means that it is very important to plan your magic phase when you make your list.
For instance, if you plan on using the 1-2 punch approach, you have to make reasonably sure that you have 2 key spells at range, and 2 key spells to cast into CC, or you won't be very effective. Make sure to keep this in mind when selecting spells.
What I do is to prioritize the spells before I roll them.
For instance, when facing a low Initiative army with my semi shooty DEs with a shadow mage, I often go for a 1-2 punch approach. Then I have to make sure I get 2 key ranged spells and 2 key CC spells.
My priority would often be:
1 Withering (as its a key both in CC and at range)
2 Pit
3 Mindrazor / enfeeble
Leaving me with 2 strong ranged attacks (withering + pit) and 2 strong CC debuffs (withering + enfeeble/mindrazor)
So, when at spell selection and army generation, ask yourself "What 2 key spells do i aim at in CC and at range?" "Is it reasonably sure to get them?"
9/10 times, I will combine the before mentioned lv4 shadow mage with a lv2 mage which takes miasma and a nonimportant spell, to make sure your lv4 has the spells he/she needs.
If you sit down like I did and go meticulously through every lore, and combination of lores, you will see how difficult it actually is to make sure you get the spells you need with a single lv4.
Enter the lv4+2 setup, or the dual lv4 setup, which can be very very effective and allow you to switch tactics during the magic phases. However some lores like fire and metal can work equally well in both a trickle approach and a 1-2 approach.
A Lv1 fire + lv1 metal leaves with a strong 1-2 punch ranged magic phase. However you have no CC spells.
A lv4 dark with ruby ring and sac dagger gives you a strong trickle base mainly at range. I would suggest combining it with another lore either to expand on the trickle strategy and focus on low casting value spells, or to supplement your lack of CC spells with a shadow mage.
A lv4+2 death with sac dagger+dispel scroll is also a very effective way to handle a magic phase. You can be equally potent both at range and in CC (with Soulblight, Doom&Darkness).
A single lv2 with ToF with fire is actually a very versatile spell caster. You have more than 74% chance to get another strong spell (Flamecage or Sword) along with the signature spell for a strong 1-2 punch ranged attack phase. This can be supplemented with a more CC oriented spellcaster, or can be in addition to a lv4 dark mage.
My point being: It is important to plan your magic phases as early as the army list design. What key spells will you have at range? What key spells will you have in CC?
Shadow and Death in the ETC 2012:
Now what spurred all this for my part was the ETC deciding to add a 4 dice cap to shadow and death spells. Therefore I am going to give you a very short summary of my thoughts that led to this article.
In the ETC and many other tournaments where I participate, magic, especially Shadow and Death magic, is heavily comped. In the ETC, for instance, you can only generate 2 extra PD each phase, and shadow and death lore can only be cast with a max of 4 dice.
This restriction effectively eliminated the "all in one basket approach", and led me to theorize on other ways to build an effective magic phase.
The 2 natural responses were the 1-2 punch and the trickle approach. So I decided to look further into them. Hence the thoughts above.
The 4 dice max is a huge nerf to shadow magic, as several key spells in the lore (mindrazor and 36" range withering) became very hard to cast reliably and therefore not viable.
So I had a look at Book of Ashur (as DEs' only way to raise the chance to cast them succesfully), and compared the probability to just +4 to cast and +4 with dagger.
Here are the probabilities:
Shadow casting success percentages
Death casting succes percentages:
In short these were my conclusions:
BoA does indeed raise the chance to cast mindrazor and withering36", but still not enough to make the cost worthwhile. Instead you should focus on the lower cast spells 18"withering, enfeeble, pit, miasma.
Shadow with Focus Familiar
Now the interesting thing i realized was that if you equip the shadow mage with a focus familiar and extend the range of his shadow spells with 6", you can cast a 24" withering with 95% probability, which raises the value of withering a lot, and combines well with the 24" range of our RXBs. Making shadow much more viable.
Sac Dagger
As seen in both tables, Sac Dagger is an amazing tool to raise the probability to cast a spell succesfully. And not surprisingly, it's extremely good. Much more can be said on this item based on the above numbers.
To be honest, I was amazed at how much reliability a sac dagger adds to a lv4s magic phase.
Introduction
Lets face it: Magic wins warhammer games!
With the inclusion of strong game winning magic lores in the 8th ed BRB and the 2d6 powerdice (+more) it is no surprise that the effectlve use or defense against magic wins games.
Therefore its very important to use you magic in such a way to get the most out of it! Hence, the focus of this thread is to present my thoughts and hopefully start a fruitfull discussion on the effective use of magic to win games, not so much to defend against enemy magic. Other threads do that very well.
I normally play in a comped environment with ETC restrictions on magic, or similar. This influences my view on things, but i will do my best to look beyond that fact.
Most of what is in this post is tacit knowledge for at least many who often attend tournaments. The idea is to verbalize and share this, and improve it for everyone.
The three approaches
As i see it, there are 3 basic strategies to get an effective magic phase:
* "The All in one basket approach"
* "The 1-2 Punch"
* "The Trickle approach"
Your aim each magic round is to get of key spells and or draw out his dispel scroll as early as possible, so you can get of your imporant game winning spell later in the game.
What not to do:
In most cases you can expect your opponent to dispel your biggest and most threatening spell with his dispell dice each magic phase.
So you should not throw most of you dice at a single key spell, see it dispelled and throw you last couple of dice at a small insignificant spell. The result being you only get a small insignificant spell of each round.
In stead try something different:
"The All in One Basket Approach"
Well this is a very straight forward approach giving the fact the DE sorceress can throw as many dice as you have at a given spell. Since you will in most circumstances have more PD than your opponent has DP, simply throw all your dice at the key spell. It is very unlikely that he will be able to dispel it with dice, leaving him with 2 options. Eat your key spell, or use a scroll.
All in all you stand a good chance to either get of your one key spell or draw out his dispel scroll.
If you use this strategy often, dont expect your mage to survive long though
I dont have much to say about this strategy. It can be effective, but in most circumstances I won't recommend using this strategy as you sole approach.
If you do, one way to do it would be lv 1-2 fire/metal mage with PoK, and usually throwing all your dice at an appropriatly boosted signature spell. PoK to give you some protection vs miscasts. What you lack though is the proper key spells to win the game, and it cannot be used in many comped tournamenst ETC for instance.
This is a very basic strategy and can be compared with delivering a huge chop with a greatsword which just powers through your enemies defenses.
Nothing subtle or covert about it. But can be effective.
"The 1-2 Punch"
If you accept the fact that your most important spell will be dispelled by your opponents dice each magic round. You focus naturally shifts from "what is the biggest baddest most important spell i can use this magic phase" to "What is the 2nd most important spell i can cast this magic phase".
That shift is very important. And you should always keep this in mind when selecting what spells to cast in each magic phase. "Since my opponent dispels my most important spell this turn, what is the 2nd key spell to get off in this magic phase?"
What does this mean? Well in most cases its much more effective to cast 2 equally important (key) spell rather than a single key spell with 1-2 minor spell with little to no effect.
One of the reasons shadow magic is so good, is because it can work very well with the 1-2 punch strategy.
Lets take an example.
You are in a critical part of the game with a game deciding close combat in progress. It is your turn. You have a shadow mage with mindrazor, withering, enfeebling foe and miasma.
Well my suggestion would be to make sure to cast 2 key spells. In this situation it would be to split your dice towards withering and either mindrazor or enfeebling foe (Dagger / No dagger), instead of most on mindrazor, a couple on miasma.
If you use the 1-2 approach the net effect will be a gamechanging withering/enfeeblement as apposed to a lackluster miasma.
If you accept the fact that the 1-2 punch is one of the most effective ways to structure your magic phase, the next question of course becomes. How to I make sure i have 2 key spells in each magic phase. More on that later..
You can compare the 1-2 punch with a skilled swordsman making 2 important and debilitating attacks against an opponent who can only parry one attack. Therefore he makes sure the 2 attacks are both key attacks, leaving your opponent in a lose, lose situation.
"The Trickle Approach"
The trickle approach is to quite simply to overwhelm you opponents magic defense with many low cast spells. Each spell cast in itself may not be gamechanging, but when you get 2,3 or even 4 lesser spells get through each round. In the longer run your magic will be very effective.
This is a strategy that DEs do very well (Especially with the help of Sacrificial Dagger).
As with the 1-2 punch, the idea is to make sure you opponent does not have a single key spell to dispel each magic phase, but instead throw many smaller spells, where some of them will get through. This has the added bonus of being very difficult if not impossible to defend against even with dispel scrolls. Because you leave your opponent with no solid spell to use his scroll against.
A good start to a trickle approach is to include a lv4 with dark and sac dagger, i would recommend at least another spell caster though, as the lv4 will have trouble using all your PD, and to make sure you have key spells both at range but also in CC.
If you build your magic with the trickle approach in mind you can have a very potent magic phase, which is very reliable and very difficult to defend against.
For instance, with 7-8 PD it is not uncommon to get off Chillwind (doing damage, and rendering an opponents shooting unit unable to respond), Word of Pain (to either protect a vulnerable CC unit or cripple another shooting unit) and Bladewind (to take out an enemy warmachine) while your opponent dispels Black Horror and Spirit Leech. But the 3 spells you got through his defenses have a great effect on the game.
The Trickle approach can be compared to a musketeer attacking with a flurry of blows. The defender can't parry all attacks, and even though each attack does not win the fight on its own, you will get several though his defenses, each attack weakening your opponent until your final strike to end the battle.
Spell Selection
Now all the above is fine and dandy, but it means that it is very important to plan your magic phase when you make your list.
For instance, if you plan on using the 1-2 punch approach, you have to make reasonably sure that you have 2 key spells at range, and 2 key spells to cast into CC, or you won't be very effective. Make sure to keep this in mind when selecting spells.
What I do is to prioritize the spells before I roll them.
For instance, when facing a low Initiative army with my semi shooty DEs with a shadow mage, I often go for a 1-2 punch approach. Then I have to make sure I get 2 key ranged spells and 2 key CC spells.
My priority would often be:
1 Withering (as its a key both in CC and at range)
2 Pit
3 Mindrazor / enfeeble
Leaving me with 2 strong ranged attacks (withering + pit) and 2 strong CC debuffs (withering + enfeeble/mindrazor)
So, when at spell selection and army generation, ask yourself "What 2 key spells do i aim at in CC and at range?" "Is it reasonably sure to get them?"
9/10 times, I will combine the before mentioned lv4 shadow mage with a lv2 mage which takes miasma and a nonimportant spell, to make sure your lv4 has the spells he/she needs.
If you sit down like I did and go meticulously through every lore, and combination of lores, you will see how difficult it actually is to make sure you get the spells you need with a single lv4.
Enter the lv4+2 setup, or the dual lv4 setup, which can be very very effective and allow you to switch tactics during the magic phases. However some lores like fire and metal can work equally well in both a trickle approach and a 1-2 approach.
A Lv1 fire + lv1 metal leaves with a strong 1-2 punch ranged magic phase. However you have no CC spells.
A lv4 dark with ruby ring and sac dagger gives you a strong trickle base mainly at range. I would suggest combining it with another lore either to expand on the trickle strategy and focus on low casting value spells, or to supplement your lack of CC spells with a shadow mage.
A lv4+2 death with sac dagger+dispel scroll is also a very effective way to handle a magic phase. You can be equally potent both at range and in CC (with Soulblight, Doom&Darkness).
A single lv2 with ToF with fire is actually a very versatile spell caster. You have more than 74% chance to get another strong spell (Flamecage or Sword) along with the signature spell for a strong 1-2 punch ranged attack phase. This can be supplemented with a more CC oriented spellcaster, or can be in addition to a lv4 dark mage.
My point being: It is important to plan your magic phases as early as the army list design. What key spells will you have at range? What key spells will you have in CC?
Shadow and Death in the ETC 2012:
Now what spurred all this for my part was the ETC deciding to add a 4 dice cap to shadow and death spells. Therefore I am going to give you a very short summary of my thoughts that led to this article.
In the ETC and many other tournaments where I participate, magic, especially Shadow and Death magic, is heavily comped. In the ETC, for instance, you can only generate 2 extra PD each phase, and shadow and death lore can only be cast with a max of 4 dice.
This restriction effectively eliminated the "all in one basket approach", and led me to theorize on other ways to build an effective magic phase.
The 2 natural responses were the 1-2 punch and the trickle approach. So I decided to look further into them. Hence the thoughts above.
The 4 dice max is a huge nerf to shadow magic, as several key spells in the lore (mindrazor and 36" range withering) became very hard to cast reliably and therefore not viable.
So I had a look at Book of Ashur (as DEs' only way to raise the chance to cast them succesfully), and compared the probability to just +4 to cast and +4 with dagger.
Here are the probabilities:
Shadow casting success percentages
Death casting succes percentages:
In short these were my conclusions:
BoA does indeed raise the chance to cast mindrazor and withering36", but still not enough to make the cost worthwhile. Instead you should focus on the lower cast spells 18"withering, enfeeble, pit, miasma.
Shadow with Focus Familiar
Now the interesting thing i realized was that if you equip the shadow mage with a focus familiar and extend the range of his shadow spells with 6", you can cast a 24" withering with 95% probability, which raises the value of withering a lot, and combines well with the 24" range of our RXBs. Making shadow much more viable.
Sac Dagger
As seen in both tables, Sac Dagger is an amazing tool to raise the probability to cast a spell succesfully. And not surprisingly, it's extremely good. Much more can be said on this item based on the above numbers.
To be honest, I was amazed at how much reliability a sac dagger adds to a lv4s magic phase.