Ogre blocks

[Lordn00b]

Hi chaps,

Ran up against a unit of 18 Ogres the other in a block of three with a lad in it with some ridiculous 60 point item which means on a 2+ any spells aren't cast against that unit but something else, or indeed nothing else.

So with 3 wounds apiece, strength 4, two attacks each, impact hits, fighting with all their ranks as apparently monstrous infantry get all supporting attacks and you can only cast chuffing vortexes at it.

How on earth do you get them?

[Tyrannus deathbringer]

ASF BSB Hag Executioners Horde (30 S6 hits)

vanilla Executioner Horde (they'll strike first against great weapon ogres)

Witch Horde plus optional Hag (Poison, Manbane)

COK Bus (S6 charge, no stomps)

Shades with RS Manbane Assassin (not to fight them, just to walk along behind them :p)

Cauldron backup for any or all of the above.

{Also magic buffs i.e. Mindrazor}

[Killerk]

1. Well, purple sun usually does the job done sine the spell is not cast on the unit, and it does not work.

2. The stubborn dread lord.

3. The unit is still damaged with shooting.

4. if all else fails, play avoidance.

[Saintofm]

Lore of Shadow and Death tend to do well here.

Even if you can't get the uber spells, there are plenty to weaken them with or do some damage.

Have you tried a unit of kniights, 8-9 guys, with 6 wide ranks with a BSB armed with a halburd, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, and the Hydra banner (every one in the unit, icluding mounts get an extra attack the first round of combat).

THe knights will get 17 S6 attacks that turn and can still rerole their missed hits on 12 attacks the following.

The BSB will always get S5 attacks that can be reroled, and the coldones get 12 attacks the first round of combat.

[Daeron]

An alternative could be to try to assassinate the standard bearer with that flag... 50 points of Witch Elves might do it. Then have a field trip with magic on that unit.

[Killerk]

any semi advanced player will keep this heroes in the back rank.

[L1qw1d]

Well, avoid their Charge. That's vital.

They have Fear, Higher S (well, I mean COMPARED) but lower WS. 18 is just...MEAN and kind of a point sink for him. It's 30 for just Bulls (are they just Bulls?) just running Naked, after that's it's just details, but a block that's 600 points minimum (540 naked, 576 if they have the gauntlets, and w/e else for command and banner... has to be near 750 by the end!)

Massive crowd control: Any Initiative based Vortex, or Metal's #6. It's heaven. Shadow Hexes if you can get them. Buff as much as possible, especially FIRE (I know someone did the larger block... it was like 15. Put a Regen on the unit for one round. Totally negated ANY damage thrown)

Wych Elves. No seriously, these are seminal for this. Buff them any way you can, and have them go to town. If you're brave/ throwing points around, you could have a Hag or a Sin with Manbane to at least carve a BIT of life out of them.

I've wanted to try an Exec Axe Lord but you'd have to throw everything at them all at once. EVERYTHING. RBT's would have to Volley to take ONE out round by round, Mindrazor anything you can AND put Aiban on them, and pray you can get your cav to rear charge, because you're in for a BRUTAL fight.

I thought if a Bearer died, another just picked it up? And that's barring the Look Out Gnoblar. If you can figure out ANY way to force him to break, panic or anything else, it should be a touch better, but that's like the WoC Chosenstar from hell! lol

[Lordn00b]

ASF BSB Hag Executioners Horde (30 S6 hits)

vanilla Executioner Horde (they'll strike first against great weapon ogres)

Witch Horde plus optional Hag (Poison, Manbane)

COK Bus (S6 charge, no stomps)

Shades with RS Manbane Assassin (not to fight them, just to walk along behind them :p)

Cauldron backup for any or all of the above.

{Also magic buffs i.e. Mindrazor}

At three wounds each you just aren't doing enough damage on average to kill enough that he won't annihilate you back. We play tested the Exec horde three times and he won. Basically unless you kill a back rank in one go he's going to win. If anybody fancies it I would appreciate the math hammer on WE and Exec hordes Vs Ogre hordes. Assume non great weapon Ogres.

Also, whilst I appreciate the advice all debuffs are cast on the unit so will be moved to a different unit or not cast at all on a 2+ and are therefore not a sure fire way to take them out.

L1qw1d; good advice, vortex all the way was the only way I could think, and if you let them get the charge you've already lost. You are absolutely right, I really think this is the best Close combat unit in the game as I've seen it tear through everything. The trouble is if you throw everything at it, you're ignoring all the rest of the Ogre ridiculousness.

[Tyrannus deathbringer]

How much does his unit cost?

[Daeron]

If anybody fancies it I would appreciate the math hammer on WE and Exec hordes Vs Ogre hordes. Assume non great weapon Ogres.

I'd love to, but I don't know the Ogre Kingdoms that well. Only fought them once in 6th edition.

What kind of stats and attacks are we looking at?

[Ehakir]

With a unit of 18 ogres in his list it must not be that hard to flank him... If you have 2 units which will maintain their ranks after the ogres have stricken back, you can flank him. He cannot count his ranks, he doenst have steadfast (if you have a unit with more ranks than him), and if you do it correctly, he can only attack with 4 ogres to the side (which he can swap out for characters). Even regular blocks of warriors could handle this if you put some cool characters in the unit.
The trick with large units, it to flank them and threaten the other sides of the unit. If he reforms towards the unit, you can flank him again next turn. Once he cannot count his ranks and cannot hit you with his ogres towards the front, the unit is as good as dead.

[Omnichron]

I bet he has that banner which makes you unable to use spells on the unit... if not, it's quite easy, Withering and shooting, as well as pit of shades. Witch elves into them with mindrazor.

If he has the banner... same tactics, excpet the withering and pit of shades!

Use chaff to keep that big unit back and make sure he don't get close. You can torpedo your units to take down general and BSB, which makes it easier for you to break his troops with shooting. Pegasus hero with a BSB close by can hold such a unit for a while.

[L1qw1d]

@ Tyrranus: at CHEAPEST, it's around 6-700 points. A Bull alone is 30. their Ironfists are +2 points (I believe they have skin like leather armour, so that's just armour and a shield) OR they can take AHW for +1 point. Command options are 10 points each and you can get a look-out gnoblar for 5 points (which lowers the count of models needed for a “Look Out, Sir!” roll to 3) so TOTALLY beefed is 32 each. Thats JUST Bulls tho. If they're Iron guts, and the guy moved a BSB into the unit, it's like 43 each minimum.

Hey, if they DON'T have the Look Out Gnoblar... we COULD just treat the SB as a normal bull, right? I mean, the BRB says another person would just pick it up- how is this affected? AFAIK, the Rune maw can only be taken by the BSB.

The thing I've seen is the Champ they like to put in a unit.
Hell Heart basically forces every enemy caster to miscast (I forget the radius. Book @ home). Depending on your magic RELIANCE (not usage. I've been seeing a few NEED their magic phase lately). It's like a feedback scroll but it can hit ALL in a range.

The Rune Maw (the banner in question) just makes a unit an anti magic bubble, and the spell goes SOMEWHERE (well...back into the winds, if he succeeds...) . Bubbles are made to be popped. There HAS to be a non-magic way to do so.

There's a worse one out there too. The 40 point Greedy Fist. Now see, any time the Ogre harms you? Your caster loses a Level. AFAIK, this has been a CLUSTER (that's the non-profane wording...) when handling RAW/RAI. The way I've seen it for TOURNEY play moderately comped is: physical attacks by the Ogre (not magical, nor hexes) will do this damage, be it ranged or melee. BUT THEY DO PUT THIS ON CASTERS BECAUSE MANY COUNT THE MAGIC HITS (example: Lore of Death). Seriously, More tourneys allow this possibly out of guilt for having fat people run around a field all day.

Additional Query: Will we need to worry about Ogre Charge for Pursuits?

EDIT: Sorry. each paragraph should be read separately, because I was working and posting. I'm a bad person for that, but I did my job lol

[Paricidas]

The unit is much to expensive too do anything but storming into combat.
It is much to big ( 6 ranks) to wheel.
Box it with harpies and you have 854 points just doing nothing.



Alternativly you can of course charge 854 points of witches in to his flank, that will also do the job .

[Blackphantom]

rune maw: when any spell targeting the unit is succefully cast, roll a D6. on a 2+ you have to choose an other unit (no unit available = fail)

hellheart is D6 x 5 inch range force to roll on the miscast table

[Saintofm]

There are some spells that do attack a unit indirectly. Shadow's pendulem is one as it's simply going in a strait line X amount of D6". That said, aside from mind razor, most of them require you to tarrget the unit in that spell.

Or you could do like wise with any of the majorr template spells.