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Risky full ofensive Dragonlord(poor antishooting defense) 
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Noble
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 448
Location: Athens
Hey guys, as the title suggests I am considering on taking the dragonlord on the offensive now he already can deal a nasty ammount of damage while still having decent antishooting defense but I remember from 6th ed using my Dragonlord with the Gauntlet of power and melting Knights so I thought of trying a similar approach but as always I'd like to theorycraft a bit before actually trying him soI wanted to hear of your opinion.

Test:

Lord:Dragon, Giant Blade, Armor of eternal servitude, dragonbane gem, SDC,Shield 569 pts(I could even remove the gem and get the potion of foolhardiness instead)

The actual list: ect 2400

Lord: Dragon, WoA,CoHG,4+ward,HA,Sh 569 pts
Hag:CoB BSB 225 pts
Sorc:lvl2 metal, Eye,Scroll 185 pts
Master: DP,GW,PoK,Dragonhelm,SDC,HA 187 pts

5 Harpies 55 pts
5 Harpies 55 pts
5 DR mus 92 pts
20 rxb mus 205 pts
40 war: Sh,Std,Mus,SoD 304 pts
20 BG:FC,CD,BoM 345
1 Hydra 175

Total: 2397

Feel free to coment with your ideas obviously will be a pain in the arse to keep him safe from shooting if I go full ofense but do you actually think it could work on a competitive tournament envoiroinment?

Also feel free to comment on list generaly if you like to. Regarding the list I opted for BG over WE due to their discipline frenzy can be a pain in the arse sometimes and truns from gift to curse and ExE well... lets not mention them it pains me to see such great models staying in the shelf(thank good I didn't buy more than 12 of them when I started the hobby back in the days although I was tempted to switch to 30 EXE with BoM for some nice overkill vs knights and other nasties but the points do not allow me to anyway)

Now list talk alone would be better for the list thread so I'd mostly like the opinion regarding my theoretical Dragonlord vs my Practical one and how they actually fit into this list.

Thank you.

PS: The point with the dragonlord especially the more ofensive one is that he might actually stand his own vs big nasty stuff in melee however mostly the dragonlord will be used as a flanker likewise the hydra and they will mostly engage units that my spearelf and my BG have already engaged. The lord and the master might even charge the same unit the two of them that way I have got a pawn to answer to a challenge while my lord kills the unit. Harpies,DR in roles of hunters/redirectors the master on role of hunter.

_________________
'And lo, he shall rule with a dark hand and his shadow shall touch uppon every land.'

Single combat I await
My shadow brings them fear
The spikes upon my chariot
Will grind them when they're near...


Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:04 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
Posts: 1294
Location: UmeƄ, Sweden
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I think you can do quite well with that kind of build, but is the extra +1S worth almost dubble the pts compared to Crimson Death, or four times the cost of the Soulrender?

Consider your build vs.:

Soulrender, Armour of Darkness, Talisman of Protection, Other Tricksters Shard (560 pts)

- Same armour modifier (-4), my build -1 S and ASL
- 1+ AS and 4++ compared to your 2+ AS and 4+Reg / 2++ against Flaming
- OTS will affect the attacks from both the Rider and the Dragon

I think the OTS is a great benefit offensively, much more so than the additional +1 to-wound modifier from the Giant Blade over the Soulrender. The weakness with my build is that you will strike last, but with the Dragon being flying and all, you should be able to pick your fights. I also think the extra 5 pts of the Talisman of Protection build compared to Eternal Servitude + Dragonbane is worth it, the regen-build leaves you very vulnerable to Killing Blow.

About the rest of your list; It looks good but I'd would be worried about Scouts as you have no magic missiles and no mobile shooting that can be used to fend them off. Your only real tools against Gutters or Shades are the Breath attacks from the Hydra and Dragon, but you probably want these up centre too if you're playing the list offensively.

- Personally, I'd drop the lvl 2 upgrade from the Sorceress and use the points to upgrade 5 Harpies to 5 Shades. You want the signature spell anyway, and once the scroll and Eye are used, you can chuck all your dice at that spell and not really care if you blow up or not.
- Drop a Spearmen to get a Champion for the Crossbows (5 pts more for BS5 and challenges is great)
- I'm not sure about the Crimson Death on the BG Champion. I know many swear by it, but I'm guessing you'll only get to swing once before your 1W T3 5+ AS model will go down anyway. I'd suggest changing the Crimson Death to the Ruby Ring instead, giving you a Fireball spell to kill some chaff.
- BSB on the Cauldron is a matter of taste, but in a Dragon list I would really advocate putting it on the Pegasus so you can provide the (all-too) important reroll for your Lord where ever he is on the battlefield. Your Lord will probably lose a lot of fights, and without the Crown its just too risky to have him outside BSB range.

Good luck!

//Seto


Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:48 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Norway
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I'd recommend either Cloak of Hag Graef or Pendant on that lord. A couple of cannonshots and both the dragon and he will be killed. With pendant or cloak, your lord will survive at least.

Other than that, you lack a bit of armor crunchers (if the dragon and lord dies), so you might struggle against all knight empire, bretonnia or heavy armored WoC list... metal helps a lot though, so it might be enough.

_________________
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10


Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:59 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:36 am
Posts: 1070
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Theres nothing wrong with AOES/DBG combo, its solid and is a change from the usual POK or COHG/DS combo. However, I dont think the Giant Blade is worth it. S7 is good, but not 60 points good.

If you really want S7, Caledor's Bane is S7 on the charge and half the points cost.

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Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:52 am
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Noble
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 448
Location: Athens
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Thank you for your replies guys fair points so far. As I said erlier I had GoP on mind from 6th used to be S8 no armor save but since it was cheesy they never implimented it in 7th or 8th so the giant blade is the closest I could find to that. I havent made up my mind yet though.

With the testing setup I woulod avoid fighting any KB unit with my lord thats for sure and to be honest even with my usual setup Cloack+ 4+ ward I would not consider to put him vs KB units anyway. So my only concern is realy heavy shooting since that cloak does great. In the end though 60pts seem overpirced for Giant blade so I might drop it most probably. Problem is I don;t realy want to fight last so I am not considering Soulrender or any GW seriously as an option most probably I'll be sticking to WoA but the combo with shard affecting both lord and mount seems interesting as well so I might give it a try Soulrender+shard and see how it goes.

I might give the BSB to DP noble as suggested and charge them both with Dragonlord on same unit that way I will recieve the benefits and still be able to answer or issue challenges if needed with the noble.

On the typical list I run 2x5 harpies 5 DR and 2x5 shades I don't run the hunter hero so my second test was actually hunter hero vs 2x5 shades. I was also considering the BSB on DP but I think I realy need either KB or 5+ ward on those BG unit. Unless I just skib bg for WE with armor piercing then I can remove CoB and use BSB on DP I know it;s not fluffy but the WE don;t realy need KB and it;s not effective on them anyway so I could skip the cob blessings alltoghether in that case.

PS: I can't give pok to Lord due to many qqers in ECT screaming OP and items get banned then again never seen them scream OP for Druchii in 6th... oh wait they were not OP back then nvm...

_________________
'And lo, he shall rule with a dark hand and his shadow shall touch uppon every land.'

Single combat I await
My shadow brings them fear
The spikes upon my chariot
Will grind them when they're near...


Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:29 pm
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