Dealing with Flanking Crushers

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Killerk
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Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Killerk »

I was going over Swordmaster of Hoeth's (from this forum) battle report , and I noticed that he had trouble dealing with Scull Crushers that were deployed on extreme flanks.
I figured that he could deal with them more efficiently, and .... well it turned in to a nice article. As it can easly by done with the use of our unit's, I decided to post it here also.

The original battle report: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=94823&start=840


As promised, a way to deal with crushers deployed on flanks. I would like to note, its easy to suggest play's, once the battle is over. With having lots of time to analyze and plan out, a "better" way to do thing's.
Also note that an irritated opponent, might divert some unit's to help the stranded crushers, this I didn't take under consideration as it is impossible to predict what your opponent might or might not do.

For keeping crushers or any frenzy unit out of the battle, it is essential you have a lot of movement, and preferably cheep unit's.

I started with the way you deployed your unit's.
I assume the centre of the battle went as it did, as it would open up too many possibilities to analyze, I'd be probably writing for at least a week :wink:.

The trick is basically to force overrun moves off of the table edge, once that is done use your fast unit's to deny the crushers any possibility of engaging valuable target's.

Ok, part one

Feeding the crushers

The red boxes is where I would suggest to make your vanguard moves, as it gives you much flexibility and your close to the border edge, making certain you will not be short by an inch or two. To get the proper overrun angle for the crushers. Just a reminder an average swiftstride roll is 9, also it is extremely important to remember that there is a 89% for rolling 6+.

There is a few reasons for having the fast cav, 2 wide
1. If the Crushers fluff their attack rolls, you can manipulate the centre to centre flee path removing casualties in a favourable way.
2. It limits the number of attack's, by using the charge rules to prevent the crushers to contact you with the centre of their unit.
3. Keeps the unit fairly short.

Now I would move up a bit more aggressive, feeding your riders to his crushers, and supporting with Sword masters and White lions if the crushers make a low overrun roll (less then 10% chance of that happening, but still one must prepare as it can happen.), also a small chance to get a unit of DP in there. But only if the WL have a nice target closer to the centre of the table.
Please notice you still have a nice kill zone on the left.
While the right flank, is almost same, as it was in your game still allowing you to concentrate your bow fire.

It's good to mark where the unit has to return. it will make further moves much easier to predict.


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Part two - Limiting movement possibilities



Since returning to the battle field, limits your opponents options, it's good to limit them some more :wink:.

Blocking the way past the tower with your Sword masters, is a good move. It will also make your opponent think twice before exposing his unit to a flank charge, if he want to move towards the centre.

I'd keep the eagle away from harm of possible charges, but somewhere in the vicinity of the SM (more then 6" in case of any panic check's). This will give us a back up plan if something goes wrong.
Also, it is most logical, that the crushers will face the SM's, as they clearly can take them out on the charge.
It's a better option then risking a flank charge, and a possible brake test, or if things go bad for the SM's, forcing crushers in to a bad pursuit direction.

With the Crushers away off the field, I assume the DP, WL and other SM could assault the centre of the battle field over powering the WoC forces there, and not take part in staling the crushers, until their work in the centre is done :mrgreen:.

On the right

Feed the crushers an eagle. It's nice to move in such a way, that will force an overrun path, out towards the table edge. This is the easily done by keeping the eagle 1" deep in the crusher unit. it will also keep the majority of the crusher in it's front arc, and will give up only 1" of table, stalling them even longer.

Remember of a due panic, it's best to keep your fast cav, further then 6" from the eagle.

In our example, the chance of the crushers going out of the table is again well over 90%.

And if they don't we have our fast cav to block their advancement.


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turn 3 - Rinse and repeat ;).

On the left

Feed the eagle to the crushers, reform the SM and possibly move them back, to stay clear of the overrun path, threatening a flank charge if the crushes don't go off the table. Again an over 90% chance of success.

On the right

Congo line your Fast cav, but make sure to leave enough room for the crushers to enter the field. again stopping any advancement. Remember
1. you return to the table with the back of you unit touching the table edge.
2. to make a reform you must keep the centre of the unit in the same place, this will not allow you opponent to face up or down as there is no room.

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Turn 4

On the left, use the SM to stop any advancement, of the crushers, in the same why you did, with the fast cav on the other flank.

On the right, reform your fast cav, to ensure a safe flee thou that building.
Move your shadow warriors out of the way, as an redirect could be devastating, you also don't want to flee with them, as they will be needed in your movement.

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Here I stopped on your turn, as the leap to the next might be confusing. Hopefully both SM and Fast cav will rally, while the Shadow warriors block any crusher advancement (swift reform).

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Turn 5 - End game


by this time you should be mopping up the centre of the table, and have enough unit's to take the crushers down. Also every time the crushers are un-engaged it's nice to whittle them down with shooting and magic.

On the right the crushers have no option but to swift reform, do to the reasons mentioned earlier, the crushers cant maintain their formation and have 2 options, presented with red and green arrow. By going up the crushers can hope for a charge, but moving your SM back will render them useless. If he decides to go down, then reforming your SM, will endanger any actions the crushers can do in the last turn.

On the left
reform the shadow warriors to a congo line and facing the crushers, so when stacking up the front model remains in place. this will force an either pursuit of overrun in to the corner of the table, meaning that in the last turn, they will not be able to charge.

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Turn 6 - no available target's

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The beauty of facing frenzied troops, is you opponent cant do anything, to stop the crushers being pulled in to bad positions.

This would allow you to to keep his heavy hitters out of the game completely, while maximizing your combat efficiency in the centre, by diverting 3 unit's from engaging the crushers, to clear the centre of the field.
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Swordmaster of Hoeth
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

I said it on the other forums and say it again. One of the best articles I have ever read. Should be a sticky on any forum and if not should be copied and studied by any aspiring tactician out there! Fantastic job and I hope it will just be the beginning of the series of excellent articles by you.

Thanks a lot for sharing!
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Dalamar
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Dalamar »

Great article dealing with bloodcrushers (and other scary frenzied troops)
Frenzy is good to exploit but in 8th edition a single Ld test makes the frenzied unit control themselves so it's more of a "I hope they fail Ld check" than anything else.

If they pass, they're just like any other unit, who seeing your bait will likely not charge (because overrun would put them in a bad place and they have to overrun)
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Killerk
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Killerk »

Well if they don't charge, they are out of the battle any ways, and I dont loose points for my unit, I'd take it any day ;).
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Exactly! The beauty of this tactics is that by being passive the WoC player gains nothing but loses precious time. Not to mention that skullcrushres standing still do not pose a threat to the rest of your army as the delaying forces are still in place to execute the same plan.
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Archamedius »

The only question I have is it seems like you are using more points to deal with two units of Blood Crushers. 3 Blood Crushers is 195 points, but The eagle, reavers, sword masters and white lions are a lot more points than that (at my best guess). Are you assuming a large block of Blood Crushers?
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Killerk
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Killerk »

Yes, and no.
A standard unit of 3 crushers comes out at 244, in this case there is two of them (488p.)
a unit of Reavers is around 105, Eagle 50, shadow warriors 70. So you tie up 488 worth of heavy hitting rare goodness, with 100 points of rare, 70 point of special and 105 core unit's (275 points worth of light troops), on top of that you secure both flanks. Allowing your elites to fight with you opponent's softer choices. Thus allowing you take out your opponents army, and concentrate on killing the crushers later on in the game, isolated they are not a threat.

If you look at the battle, the HE had no real counter to the skull crushers. Dealing with the unit, required commitment of a large portion of the army, witch took heavy losses. By stalling them ,the army could use those bodies, to quickly dominate the centre of the field. Then use superior numbers to overwhelm the isolated crushers in the later turns. Gaining a major victory, instead of a favourable draw.
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Archamedius »

Except in the description above he talks about two eagles, Two units of Reavers, the shadow warriors, a unit of white lions and a unit of sword masters for both sides. What you described he used on one side against one unit of blood crushers. Based on your math it's 275 points of light infantry to deal with 244 points of heavy hitting rare choices. Maybe that is still tactically a good option considering the damage output of blood crushers or maybe I am still not understanding....
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Even if I were to use equal or more points of light troops to delay skullcrushers I would take that opportunity as it gives me the chance (as Killer said) to use my own combat troops to deal with enemy regiments in the center.

If you read the report you would notice that in addition to losing both eagles, shadow warriors and both light cavalry (380 points total) I also lost a unit of Lions and both units of Swordmasters on the left flank. Mainly due to the fact I could not prevent Skullcrushers to enter the combat there. That in itself cost me ~ 500 points.

What is more, these regiments (in particular combat troops that participated in rendering skullcrushers useless) didn't die as they fled through building. I was lucky enough not to lose the Searing Doom to Glean Magic and that I managed to use it to destroy the crushers eventually. But in general, in the battle between skullcrushers and my own units I lost way more than I gained.

Cheers!
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Killerk
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Re: Dealing with Flanking Crushers

Post by Killerk »

The unit's that I described, just happen to be there, as Swordie used a refused flank in this battle. I just noticed they could be used more efficiently, and that is where it all started.
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