Druchii.net
http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/

Hydra and Khari
http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72839
Page 1 of 2

Author:  Liquidedust [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Hydra and Khari

The more I read the rules and compare it to other armies that I will personally face the more I start to ponder about these two monsters.

How do we keep them from running off the board the moment they fail a panic or break test?

Bloodwrack Shrine babysitters?
High Beastmaster general babysitters?

thoughts ideas?

Author:  Trax [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Btw, is there any... "hard" reason to pick a Beastmaster Manticore Rider over a Dreadlord on Manticore? It's +W3 Monster attacks vs +1 Lord attack (which might be a wash, better/worse, depending on gear etc.) and +1 Ld on the Dreadlord... and with the Ld advantage this is basically back on topic: I don't see anything but a general in 12/18". The BSB itself is not enough, Ld6 with Rerolls will not be enough (and you might have to put the BSB in range so they gather more easily instead of forward).

Bloodwrack might alleviate the problem somewhat, but Ld7 is still meh-ish. Together with BSB maybe. But still...

Author:  Liquidedust [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Trax wrote:
Btw, is there any... "hard" reason to pick a Beastmaster Manticore Rider over a Dreadlord on Manticore? It's +W3 Monster attacks vs +1 Lord attack (which might be a wash, better/worse, depending on gear etc.) and +1 Ld on the Dreadlord...


True enough, not really Dreadlord really is a better choice overall. Even moreso on a large target.

Author:  Trax [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

That's a pity, really. I was hoping for a buff that made the Beastmaster on Manticore really superior. Quite sad that both our new characters seem to be duds. Well, maybe someone will make the Beastmaster on Scourgerunner work.

Author:  Liquidedust [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Trax wrote:
That's a pity, really. I was hoping for a buff that made the Beastmaster on Manticore really superior. Quite sad that both our new characters seem to be duds. Well, maybe someone will make the Beastmaster on Scourgerunner work.


Now if beastmasters had an insipiring presence that monsters and harpies could use regardless if they were the general or not . . . .

That -would- be a good ability

Sadly they do not

Author:  Trax [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Something like that would have been something I was looking forward to. Or anything else besides a buff that's almost negated by the nerfed profile, really. With 3" range he will rarely buff a monster that is not his own.

Author:  iamghost [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

what i am really thinking at is, since we have all these new cool units with these crazy stats, do we really need to spend points in a monster? i am thinking of going MSU with more elite troops and no monsters.

Author:  Fallenturtle [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

I'll probably use them as I'm using my hydra now under the old book. near my lines as a deterrent while advancing. I've actually had people not charge my spearmen or repeaters with a unit for fear of the hydra in the flank.

Author:  Trax [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

I think no monsters is perfectly viable, it's just that monster mash seems to be perfectly viable as well. And that's what might be so great about this book.

Author:  Dalamar [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Simple, keep your monsters 6" away from potential sources of panic. If they never take a Ld test, they will never fail it.

I'm hoping I can squeeze in a High Beastmaster alongside Supreme Sorceress but will have to wait and see.

Monster mash has the issue of being bad for scenarios (no fortitude to speak of and no models to claim buildings) so full monster mash is unlikely to happen. But, I think I will be fielding 3-4 monsters and 1-2 blocks of infantry supported by standard chaff.

Author:  Falstaff [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

I think both monsters are very playable!

Although the hydra got weaker, you still get to field an 8 attack, healing S5/T5 monsters.. that's pretty nice and fits well into msu! I don't see the problem of staying within 12' of bsb and General..

The K****** is even better and I think mandatory in many setups, as it is the only thing apart from the Execs that offers very high Strength to kill those high AS foes.


I don't know how to make the Beastmaster work, yet. Somehow I'd like to shoot that Reaper with BS7!
On a manticore he'd really have to pick his fights wisely.. He'd need the cloak of twighligt and maybe some lore of life to heal the manticore.

Author:  Dyvim tvar [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

I like the new K monster not just because of high strength but initiative 4. Having the hydra's attacks depend on number of remaining wounds sucks for an I2 monster. My hydras may be sitting a lot from now on.

Author:  Sulla [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Dyvim tvar wrote:
I like the new K monster not just because of high strength but initiative 4. Having the hydra's attacks depend on number of remaining wounds sucks for an I2 monster. My hydras may be sitting a lot from now on.
Heh, more reliable breath weapon and less reliable attacks. Hydras are more of a choice for avoidance lists now IMO. Lurking and waiting for the warlocks or a sorceress to hex enemy toughness before unleashing their breath weapon and then charging the remnants from the flank. They aren't front-on attackers any more as far as I can see.

Avoidance lists and combined arms forces got so many toys in the new book though. I think there's enough stuff to make them work quite well.

Author:  Phierlihy [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Anyone notice the Karibdyss isn't a 'sea monster'?

Author:  Trax [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Phierlihy wrote:
Anyone notice the Karibdyss isn't a 'sea monster'?

Yeah, why would it be one. It would be totally useless if it was.

Author:  jeffman [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

din't the hydra could get some sort of shot attack ? you could use it like fallenturtle says, babysitting other units and letting it shoot. and if it still has terror it could help enforsing ld tests after units are hit with dispair

Author:  Golan [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Falstaff wrote:
I don't know how to make the Beastmaster work, yet. Somehow I'd like to shoot that Reaper with BS7!


well, maybe U will put High Beastmaster in Scourgerunner Chariot shooting with S7 bolt thrower, assisting Kharibdyss (to give her +d3 S7 attacks)?
If you want to be more focused at supporting Kharibdyss than shooting (ie. more aggresive playstyle) then go instead with Manticore, it can fly and march and it is easier to stay 3" close to friendly monster - and always, when Kharibdyss dies, +d3 attacks can be given to manticore.

Thats how I see it.

Author:  Druchiilad [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

TBH with a BSB and any Ld9 Lord you should be fine for Ld for Monsters.

Author:  Phierlihy [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Between the Medusa, the Hydra, Karibdyss, Harpies (ok, maybe no them...), and Stupidity, having a strong General's leadership seems pretty important to keep near your own lines. Part of me thinks this was a deliberate attempt to prevent the Unkillable Dreadlord from flying around making a nuisance of himself.

Author:  Trax [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

The BM bonus just doesn't cut it for me. How often will you just park him right next to your Kharybdiss to give it 1 attack (that's what you better calculate with, 1d doesn't allow for much variance)? That's ~400p just standing there for a minor buff and 3" means he's most likely in sight of something since the Kharibdyss seems to be in combat. And for the use on his own Manticore - well, I'd just roll with the Dreadlord then, probably. 1 Attack by him and Ld10 is more down my line.

I'm way more interested in sticking the BM on the scourgerunner - and that's when he might actually get some use out of the creature buff since him "standing around " (i.e. shooting) isn't a mere waste, but rather using him to his full potential - but the scourgerunner is awfully fragile and I don't know if I want my lord (well, might squeeze a lvl 4 beside him in there...) to be on foot on turn 3 with no designated unit to be with him.

Author:  Darkmark [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

I wonder if Big-K's Feast of Bones rule triggers if just its regular attacks all hit, but the additional hits 'gifted' from a BM don't? Expecting to hit with up to 8 attacks before FoB triggers is bonkers surely. :? Thoughts?

Author:  Phierlihy [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Darkmark wrote:
I wonder if Big-K's Feast of Bones rule triggers if just its regular attacks all hit, but the additional hits 'gifted' from a BM don't? Expecting to hit with up to 8 attacks before FoB triggers is bonkers surely. :? Thoughts?

The same idea occurred to me as well which is why I don't think I'll be throwing the beastmaster's ability on my Karibdyss.

Though I think getting a Beastmaster and another monster within 6" of each other will be fairly easy. All they have to do is get into the same combat or fight units fairly close to each other.

Author:  Dalamar [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Yes, it's practically designed for the beastmaster to be in the same combat with the monster you intend to buff.

Author:  Golan [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Feast of Bones will rarely be seen, Kharibdyss must first hit with all attacks, and chaces are low.

when rolling toHit on 4+ there is 3.13% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 1.56% (for +1A), 0.78% (for +2A) and 0.39% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 3+ there is 13.17% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 8.78% (for +1A), 5.85% (for +2A) and 3.90% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 2+ there is 40.19% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 33.49% (for +1A), 27.91% (for +2A) and 23.26% (for +3A)

from my point of view, I would give Kharibdyss +D3 attacks most of the time when S7 is needed, but I will playtest it when plastic DE Manticore will be released (if ever it will be ; P)

Author:  Liquidedust [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hydra and Khari

Golan wrote:
Feast of Bones will rarely be seen, Kharibdyss must first hit with all attacks, and chaces are low.

when rolling toHit on 4+ there is 3.13% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 1.56% (for +1A), 0.78% (for +2A) and 0.39% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 3+ there is 13.17% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 8.78% (for +1A), 5.85% (for +2A) and 3.90% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 2+ there is 40.19% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 33.49% (for +1A), 27.91% (for +2A) and 23.26% (for +3A)

from my point of view, I would give Kharibdyss +D3 attacks most of the time when S7 is needed, but I will playtest it when plastic DE Manticore will be released (if ever it will be ; P)


Just use the plastic manticore from warriors of chaos!

Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/