making feast of bones work

[General Kael]

I didn't see anyone mention this, sorry if I missed it.

In the rule book page#4 it says that if you lower a models WS to zero then that model is hit automatically.
Word of pain lowers weapon skill but it doesn't say to a minimum of 1.
So if you could get the spell off and they had a low enough WS then feast of bones would be guaranteed.

This is still very hard to pull off, they need low WS to begin with, you need to get the spell off, and then roll high enough on the -D3. I guess you could use the tome to get a second Word of pain, but that's getting overly complicated.

Related question, could you lower some ones WS with miasma to 1 then to 0 with word of pain?

[Omnichron]

Yes, you can lower with Miasma to get the opponent down to a minimum of WS1 and then use word of pain to get it down to 0. It's one of the few ways you can do it, and miasma is probable the easiest way.

[Haagrum]

There's a few other options, but Miasma + Word of Pain is probably the simplest option. However, before you start, remember that Feast of Bones only works if you throw all of your attacks against the same model, not just the same unit. It's a monster-killing ability, for the most part, so unfortunately Abyssal Howl probably won't do too much good in generating easy hits through failed Fear tests.

Birona's Timewarp - This gives the Kharibdyss ASF and +1A, which makes it easier and harder to pull off Feast of Bones. With a decent WS and Initiative, that will give the Kharibdyss 3+ to hit with rerolls against most monsters, meaning that you're almost 50-50 for Feast of Bones. Miasma and Word of Pain (or even Speed of Light) can address those situations where the Kharibdyss won't get such rerolls, assuming you can get the spells off.

Speed of Light - Speaking of which, WS 10 and Initiative 10 doesn't hurt, since you're more or less guaranteed 3+ to hit. Sure, not great odds without some source of rerolls, but it's not the worst option. Miasma + Word of Pain has it all over this option, except that it requires 2 spells instead of 1.

Harmonic Convergence - The Kharibdyss would get to reroll 1s to hit (and to wound, and for armour saves). Not a huge boost for Feast of Bones, and utterly useless for Dark Elves in close combat in 99% of cases, but cheap and useful for the Kharibdyss and for shooting units (so you don't feel like you're wasting a spell slot on the Kharibdyss). Combined with Speed of Light, though, you'd be hitting on anything but a 2 or a rerolled 1 or 2, which is a small increase in likelihood for Feast of Bones.

Enchanted Blades of Aiban - +1 to hit, Armour Piercing and magical attacks. Combined with Harmonic Convergence, it's almost guaranteed to trigger Feast of Bones. However, it requires 2 spells that are not signature spells from two different lores, with limited other uses except for shooting. Still, if you can make it work, it's 2+ rerollable attacks against a lot of monsters.

[General Kael]

Yeah I forgot that its only used against single models wouldn't it be great against a unit, 5 auto hits, +D6 for feast +D6 for stomp all at S7!
Time warp does seem like a good choice unfortunately I don't really like the rest of the lore.
So it seem like this combo is only good against low WS monsters and characters (you get thunder stomps) and most characters have high WS.

This could be good against something like a steam tank, with a WS of 3 only a lucky roll with WOP is needed, 5+ and it drops to 0.

[Dalamar]

Direct all attacks against a single model to trigger feast of bones.

[General Kael]

Direct all attacks against a single model to trigger feast of bones.

I'm not sure I understand Dalamar. Do you mean direct attacks against a single model in a unit? Do wounds carry over?

[Calisson]

RAW speaking, most of the time, you can target a single R&F and it will overspill.
But expect rightly your opponent to be upset about such loophole abuse.
I strongly recommend to forfeit any overspill if you target a single model.

[Dalamar]

Cygors get to direc all attacks against the unit's standard bearer to re-roll misses (they re-roll misses when they target a model with a magic item or a wizard). It will kill as many models as the cygor wounded (again, all attacks aimed at the run of the mill banner bearer) not just the standard bearer.

It is (or was, GW likes to go back on their rulings) somewhere in the beastmen faq.

I see no reason why Kyss would be treated any different.

[Darktalon]

I'm going to proxy my hydra as one of these to see if it can deal with a steam tank, I guess it's more likely that it'll get blown to pieces in the first turn again though. My understanding of the rules is if you direct all your attacks against one target though that you do all the damage to that target, kind of like in a challenge where the wounds just count to over kill and don't get dispersed towards the rest of the unit. That's how I'd interpret it.

[Demetrius]

Feast of bones triggers when you hit a single model with all of its attacks. If you direct all of your attacks against a single RnF model, excess wounds are allocated against the rest of the unit. This is the rules, not a loophole/ gamey thing. Unless you want to start telling people that if they are corner to corner with a RnF model that they can only kill one guy, or that a thunder stomp into a building can only kill one guy because you only count as in base contact with one model. Thats not how it is played though, because its against the rules.

Feast of Bones is actually viable because of the Kharibdyss' WS5, because when its hitting on 3's, its entirely possible to make all 5 hits. First combat mine was ever in, I got an extra 5 hits against a gutstar. That was quiet nice, until he passed a LD4 break test without a reroll, and proceeded to grind me out of the combat. Fun times.

[General Kael]

I guess the way I look at it is its similar to a thunderstomp in a few ways. D6 hits, a special attack with certain qualifiers. The rules for stomps and thunderstomps say that it targets an enemy "unit". But the rule for feast of bones specifically says it targets a "model" two times in the description. In close combat do you direct your attacks against an enemy model or the enemy unit? And as this is a unique attack it doesn't necessarily need to follow old rules customs.
Of course that's just my opinion. And I do tend to opt for the least favorable outcome for myself in rules disputes.

[Calisson]

Feast of Bone is unique in targeting a "model" and providing extra hits to the "model targeted".
That wording is explicit.
Still, a strict reading of the rules allows an overspill to the rest of the unit if the model targeted was a R&F. Also, it is legitimate to target a R&F as long as there is another possible target.
But that strict reading of RAW seems contradictory with the very wording of the rule. This is why I call that a RAW loophole.


For people who like RAW powergaming, I can confirm you that with my very thorough reading of the rules, you are allowed to target a R&F as long as there is another possible target (other unit, character, champion) to choose from. In that case, overspill is still active. However, when there are only R&F as possible targets (including muso & pennant, as they have same stats as others), you are not allowed to target any model.

For people who like not to piss off their opponent with ruthless rule lawyering, I recommand not to allow any overspill ever when using Feast of Bones.

[Demetrius]

One way to look at it is that FOB works the way I have described, but as an added bonus, if the model you are allocating attacks to is a character, then the extra D6 hits will only hit him, and not be allocated to the unit as per shooting like a thunder stomp/ impact hits. That is how FOB is separated from these rules, rather than not being able to distribute amongst RnF.

[Haagrum]

The "target a rank and file model" interpretation is one I hadn't considered, but it's not entirely inconsistent with the fluff (see paragraph 4 of the bestiary entry for the Kharibdyss) and the rules as written.

As Calisson points out, the Kharibdyss would need an option to attack a different model to argue that it is directing all of its attacks at a R&F model. Most of the time, this will require a frontal charge rather than a flank charge. Unless you pull off Feast of Bones, it seems unlikely that a Kharibdyss will win that fight against anything other than basic troops - but it might be worth a shot, depending on hexes/buffs and how lucky you're feeling.

[Gastronauticon]

...one option would be the Helm of Discord though that would require a bit of a setup. The ahelm does however ensure that the targeted character is hit automatically...

[Gerner]

Miasme first to reduce ws as low, the word of pain to hopefull reduce to zero. Now you auto hit.