Lordlings ect
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Lordlings ect
Hey guess I am new to Dark Elves and WHFB and had a few questions. Whats the point of lordlings and other champions. I feel the cost is steep for what you get stats wise. (extra attack or bs or ws). What am i not seeing? Is being able to challenge really that big of a deal as that's the only other benefit i see.
Please Enlighten this n00b
Please Enlighten this n00b
- Dyvim tvar
- Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Re: Lordlings ect
Being able to issue/accept challenges can be a VERY big deal. It can limit the number of models a nasty enemy character can kill at least for one round. Similarly, answering a challenge with a champion can keep a character of yours free to attack rank and file. Finally, since wounds inflicted on a champion do not carry over to rank and file, you can position a champion on a front corner so that a wide enemy unit will have models who can only attack the champion, limiting those models to 1 kill in total for a round of combat. Little things that can turn a combat in your favor (or at least allow you to hold by limiting enemy combat resolution).
Truly These are the End Times ...
Re: Lordlings ect
Fair enough. Forgot that unless they are the last model they have to be targeted out. Maxes a lot more sense why people would take them for what seems a mostly irrelevant stat boost.
Re: Lordlings ect
Thanks Dyvim! I love this site. I learn something every day.
__________________________________
Character: Nathavin Hlat’tar
Eq: Long Sword, Shield, and Light Armour
Ws4/S4/T3/D4/I3
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Gender: Male
Age: 148
Character: Nathavin Hlat’tar
Eq: Long Sword, Shield, and Light Armour
Ws4/S4/T3/D4/I3
Inv: --
Skill: --
Gender: Male
Age: 148
- Liquidedust
- Highborn
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Re: Lordlings ect
Dyvim tvar wrote:Being able to issue/accept challenges can be a VERY big deal. It can limit the number of models a nasty enemy character can kill at least for one round. Similarly, answering a challenge with a champion can keep a character of yours free to attack rank and file. Finally, since wounds inflicted on a champion do not carry over to rank and file, you can position a champion on a front corner so that a wide enemy unit will have models who can only attack the champion, limiting those models to 1 kill in total for a round of combat. Little things that can turn a combat in your favor (or at least allow you to hold by limiting enemy combat resolution).
Having a spearblock with full command and war banner 5 ranks deep being charged by a dragonlord in the front only to challenge him with a lordling is quite amusing actually! And then counter-charge him in the flank with some executioners the next round (yes I lost combat, but only by one and bsb was close-by so didn't worry too much)
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Re: Lordlings ect
Haha thats great Liquid. Future note to self: Look beyond stat lines to the utility of the model.
- Dyvim tvar
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Re: Lordlings ect
Liquidust's post illustrates a situation where having a champion is especially helpful. If your unit is in combat with a lone character on a large monster, issue a challenge and the opponent can't refuse. This will likely prevent a Thunderstomp for at one round of combat. For the entire round of combat, a model in a challenge can only attack its opponent in the challenge, and since the champion will likely be dead at the point when a Thunderstomp is made, no Thunderstomp. And even if the champ is still alive, he takes all of the hits, preserving the unit.
Truly These are the End Times ...
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Re: Lordlings ect
Dragon princes, thunder stomps and 3 angry big'uns cheated of a good fight. We really take our champions for granted don't we?
Re: Lordlings ect
I try to throw a 10 point champion into almost every unit for just this reason. The number of times a Daemon Prince has come crashing into a block of something only to kill one model has been well worth it.
Challenges also asborb all mount attacks as well, including Chariot crew and steeds.
Challenges also asborb all mount attacks as well, including Chariot crew and steeds.
Re: Lordlings ect
It's true that unit champions are very useful for delaying powerful lone characters such as daemon princes. And for armies that are forced to issue challenges, like Warriors of Chaos, having the champion there can make it frustrating for them. However, Warriors of Chaos are also possibly the most dangerous army to feed unit champions to, because every time they kill them (and they will kill them very easily) there's the possibility of the Warrior turning into a Daemon Prince (this has happened in 3 of my last 4 games against WoC!).
Just something to bear in mind...!
Just something to bear in mind...!
- Kheel
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Re: Lordlings ect
Dyvim tvar wrote:Finally, since wounds inflicted on a champion do not carry over to rank and file, you can position a champion on a front corner so that a wide enemy unit will have models who can only attack the champion, limiting those models to 1 kill in total for a round of combat.
If you are in base contact with the unit champion, you can elect to attack the champion or the unit itself. Or one attack on the champ and the rest on the unit is commonly used just to reduce the amounts of attacks. I will provide an example using the Ogre pieces: Say you have an Ogre unit that is 3 models wide and 2 models deep, in it you have 2 characters and 1 champion. In the front rank you have the 2 characters and the unit champion, in the second rank you have 3 regular ogres.
In this case, anything in base contact with the ogre champion can elect to distribute all of their attacks on to the unit, or the champion. The unit champion is part of the unit, and is not considdered a character in that regard. If however, you decide to go full on bananas and direct all your attacks on the champion, you slay the champion with one or more additional wounds caused, those additional wounds do not carry over to the unit. Also, if you decline a challenge with your champion, it is not placed at the back of the unit as a normal character would. It just stays in place and can fight normally even though your anemy is screaming challenge in your face.
//Kheel
Nobody really cares if you’re miserable, so you might as well be happy.
Nobody really cares if you’re miserable, so you might as well be happy.
- Searinox Nagharha
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Re: Lordlings ect
Doesnt it work that if I decline a challenge that my enemy gets to pick which of my characters goes to the back?
PLOG - The House of Corvus
Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth
Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth
- Dyvim tvar
- Lord of the Dragon Caves
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- Searinox Nagharha
- Aspiring Brush Master
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- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: In my Armory, protecting my Weed.
Re: Lordlings ect
Sorry I may have misread Kheel's post. In the last part he talks about declining a challange with his champion,but you dob't decline a challange with a character or champion you just decline it.
And with his Orge Kingdom example I could just pick his most fighty character to go sulk in the back lines.
And with his Orge Kingdom example I could just pick his most fighty character to go sulk in the back lines.
PLOG - The House of Corvus
Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth
Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth
- Dyvim tvar
- Lord of the Dragon Caves
- Posts: 8372
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
- Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
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Re: Lordlings ect
But that's why you take a unit champ. When you accept, you get to choose who accepts. Accept with the champ and free your fighty character to kill rank and file.
Truly These are the End Times ...
Re: Lordlings ect
You have all given great info on why to take a Lordling. Now slightly related to my first post how do you represent your Lordling. Specificly with the new plastic kits.
Looking at the GW gallary models they gave the Dreadspear Lordling a Sword. Now I see no way to give the Lordling a hand weapon in the list section thus allowing him to make parry saves. I feel this is a little misleading. I am also not a fan of the helmet-less heads (I don't care how noble your house is not wearing your helmet seems a little stupid to me). There are a few different crests for the helmets that stand out more then others but I feel that's too little a difference on its own. I was thinking of applying some smaller decals to the shield or painting it a different colour completely.
What do you do?
Looking at the GW gallary models they gave the Dreadspear Lordling a Sword. Now I see no way to give the Lordling a hand weapon in the list section thus allowing him to make parry saves. I feel this is a little misleading. I am also not a fan of the helmet-less heads (I don't care how noble your house is not wearing your helmet seems a little stupid to me). There are a few different crests for the helmets that stand out more then others but I feel that's too little a difference on its own. I was thinking of applying some smaller decals to the shield or painting it a different colour completely.
What do you do?
- Dyvim tvar
- Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Re: Lordlings ect
Anything you can do to make the figure look different works. As you note, using a bare head is pretty common. Giving a sword to a unit armed with spears also makes him stand out, and people aren't going to have a WYSIWYG problem with that.
If you don't like those 2 options, a couple other things you could do would be:
- Make the helmet of the champion distinctive -- Use one of the helmet adornments from the Cold One Knight kit instead of those in the warrior kit
- Make the weapon of the champion distinctive -- For a spear, add a little pennant (Cold One Knight kit) and or more blades
- Add some painted detail such as contrasting trim lines or runes to the edges of the robes and/or shield
If you don't like those 2 options, a couple other things you could do would be:
- Make the helmet of the champion distinctive -- Use one of the helmet adornments from the Cold One Knight kit instead of those in the warrior kit
- Make the weapon of the champion distinctive -- For a spear, add a little pennant (Cold One Knight kit) and or more blades
- Add some painted detail such as contrasting trim lines or runes to the edges of the robes and/or shield
Truly These are the End Times ...
Re: Lordlings ect
Don't forget simple fluff! Give him a name and a title (Master-at-Arms, Castellan, Lord so-and-so, etc).
- Kheel
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Re: Lordlings ect
Searinox Nagharha wrote:Sorry I may have misread Kheel's post. In the last part he talks about declining a challange with his champion,but you dob't decline a challange with a character or champion you just decline it.
And with his Orge Kingdom example I could just pick his most fighty character to go sulk in the back lines.
I simply meant that if you find yourself in a situation where you do not want to accept a challenge, and all you have is a unit champion, and you elect not to accept a challenge. Then there is no model that can be placed back, because the unit champ stays to fight in the front rank even if he refuses a challenge. It was badly placed at the end after the Ogre unit example with two characters, I know. But this is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.
//Kheel
Nobody really cares if you’re miserable, so you might as well be happy.
Nobody really cares if you’re miserable, so you might as well be happy.