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Shadestar is back!
http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72855
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Author:  Jvh792 [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Shadestar is back!

CONVERSION TIME.
SOMEBODY GIVE THAT MAN A GREATWEAPON.
Hitting at S5 on initiative rerolling 1's to wound from a scouting position? Terrifying.

Thoughts on usability of great weapon shades? They were the best thing ever back in 7th now here they come again!!

Author:  Calisson [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

All the more that now, they get full command.
Add in a DH with witchbrew and you start to get something really nice.
Even more, they don't have ranks ever, but it does not prevent them to get supporting attacks. Who cares for ranks when you get 3 S5 I5 attacks per model in the front?

Author:  Scyloc [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

Yes, they are back.

However, keep in mind, that they no longer reroll to hit rolls. Thats a decrease of 26% in their damage (assuming they hit on 3s). MP only adds 16.7%. So they are slightly worse off than before.
If they hit on 4s its a decrease of 33% damage, with a 16.7% boost.

But now its definately easier to make a viable unit, as they allready have ASF.

However, the loss of Ring of Darkness, is a big hit for the shadestar, and the lack of Executioners Axe.

Author:  Kurze [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

I plan on busting out my Mengils Manhides foe them :)

Author:  Jvh792 [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

They can't scout with a DH in them can they?

Author:  Setomidor [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

Jvh792 wrote:
They can't scout with a DH in them can they?


No, they can't

Also, the loss of 5++ from the old cauldon is what, in my mind, makes this a lot less scary than before

Author:  Jvh792 [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

true, but if you plan it well, you can keep them from being hit in close combat while their skirmishing helps the avoid getting shot up

Author:  Jvh792 [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

I've also been toying with lore of life idea... it would give them a regen save... up to 4++.
Also makes them up to t7
Makes the sisters of slaughter t7. Laugh at anything they fight and break on nothing but static combat res since they will kill none and get no static res.

Author:  Setomidor [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

Sure, but you could do all that before as well backed up by a 5++ ward save, which with MR(3) also gave a 2++ against magic. The loss of Rendbane assassins also means you'll have no high-strength shooting, so against some armies (such as WoC) the Shadestar isn't all-that threatening.

Author:  Scyloc [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SHADESTAR IS BACK!

Having smaller shade units with GW is fun for threatening surprising side charges, and keeping them safe from many light unit charges.

But building a deathstar list around shades, became a lot harder since we, as previously explained be others, we lost many of the key items and units to make the shadestar viable.

Ring of Darkness, CoB (5++ ward, +1A), Executioners Axe Dreadlord, Rending Star Assassins etc.

Author:  Jvh792 [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shadestar is back!

True. I think I will be playing units of 5-10 with greatweapons for flank charges on non steadfast units.

Author:  Phierlihy [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shadestar is back!

I just noticed that Assassins don't have the Scout ability anymore. They can join Shades but then the Shades can't scout which is a bit of a let-down. The days of stuffing our Assassins into an opponent's back field now seems pretty dead =(

Author:  Dalamar [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shadestar is back!

Which isn't that useful without rending stars.

Author:  Gerner [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shadestar is back!

Phierlihy wrote:
I just noticed that Assassins don't have the Scout ability anymore. They can join Shades but then the Shades can't scout which is a bit of a let-down. The days of stuffing our Assassins into an opponent's back field now seems pretty dead =(

Do you think he can't join a scouting Shade unit? It just states he can join any infantry unit (except Harpies), nothing about deployment.
I would love him in a unit of GW Shades and getting backline to take out wizards or other characters.

Author:  Jvh792 [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shadestar is back!

They should be able to join because of "hidden" rule.

Author:  Paricidas [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shadestar is back!

Models that are neither represented through an actual model nor through a marker on the table do not effect the game in any way.
So as Long as you do not deploy the assassin unhidden, he is not deployed at all, he is not on the table and he cannot steal scouting rules from Scouts.
Please note that this has also negative effects on DE assassins, as they cannot use Magic items as Long as they are not part of the game. This is especialy nasty if he is equipped with a potion of strengh. Those potions must be used at the beginning of a round, so if you reveal the assassin at the beginning of a Close combat, he must not use his potion.

Author:  Phierlihy [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shadestar is back!

I dunno. That makes my gamey-ness meter creep up a bit. Not sure how comfortable I am with that inturrpretation.

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