Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:09 pm



Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 
Sorceress with Cloak of Twlight 
Author Message
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:11 pm
Posts: 275
Location: Cincinnati
What is the fascination with giving the Cloak of Twilight to a Sorceress (Lord or hero choice)? It seems like you pay a lot for the MR and with a whopping 1 attack the offense attributes of the item seem like a waste? What am I missing?

_________________
------

- Pain is Temporary, Knowledge is forever.


Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:04 pm
Profile YIM
Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:19 am
Posts: 44
A SS on BP with the TC has a 3++ vs ranged and magic. Since you are trying to keep her out of CC anyways this makes her very resilient. And she has a CC deterrent against chaff that will try to chase her down.

On CC lords and heros I would agree it is not worth it.


Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:25 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am
Posts: 506
Location: Germany
The cloak is certainly not wasted on a CC lord/hero, really depends on his setup. CC characters don't start the game in melee, they need to get there first. Besides, it's a kind of silly argument to say "cloak is great for sorcs, you get 3++!" whilst you forfeit half of the cloaks benefits.

The cloak can and will be used on CC and wizard characters alike.


Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:50 pm
Profile
Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:19 am
Posts: 44
Trax wrote:
The cloak is certainly not wasted on a CC lord/hero, really depends on his setup. CC characters don't start the game in melee, they need to get there first. Besides, it's a kind of silly argument to say "cloak is great for sorcs, you get 3++!" whilst you forfeit half of the cloaks benefits.

The cloak can and will be used on CC and wizard characters alike.

Fair enough. I guess it might be a matter of taste then becuase I see the SS as more a priority for it than a CC lord. Mostly becuase my lords sit in bunkers so they are almost never picked off at range. So the 3++ ends up not being used for me.

But it might be meta based too.


Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:05 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9664
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
If your lord sits in a bunker then indeed he won't need the cloak. The cloak is designed for solo DP or DS characters whether sorc or dl/master

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:43 pm
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 22
The idea that the cloak is wasted on a lord is laughable at best. The Dirty Harry build is extremely viable, I've had tons of success with it thus far and honestly it is fast becoming a staple in mine and other's competitive lists.


Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:34 pm
Profile
Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:19 am
Posts: 44
OldCrow wrote:
The idea that the cloak is wasted on a lord is laughable at best. The Dirty Harry build is extremely viable, I've had tons of success with it thus far and honestly it is fast becoming a staple in mine and other's competitive lists.

I guess yoh didn't read my context. I have avoided the Dirty Harry build before the new book becuase I didn't want the dirty looks. (The unkillable lord was a little over the top.)

But now I might bring out a Dragon for once. Heck I have the model.


Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:48 pm
Profile
Shade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:40 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Denmark
A DL on a DP with RR 1+ and 3++ against magic and shooting, KB and D3 Wounds in the first round of combat is not something to be ignored ... IMHO

_________________
Look down, look down, you'll always be a slave! Look down, look down, you're standing in your grave!


Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:03 pm
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Bay Area, California
With a lance that DL or even just a master with cloak on peggy is a great answer for chaos chariot spam and some monsters.


Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:24 pm
Profile WWW
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:03 am
Posts: 784
Seriously I just can't stand why we tolerate naming conventions like " Dirty Harry"....Everytime I see or read it, it makes me feel like a hipster started playing whfb and picked DE..

_________________
8th Edition

W/D/L
86/1/5

New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
W/D/L

Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Armies
Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig


Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:59 pm
Profile
The Guiding Eye
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
What or rather who is Dirty Harry? (Other than the ex-commando character that Michael Caine plays in a hollywood film...)

I'm a little behind with the terminology...

_________________
The Black Treasures of Naggaroth
The Cult of the Vile Rose History
Death of a Thousand Cuts armylist + batreps TLOEDG (The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen)


Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:11 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9664
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
It's some dreadlord build, I never follow those names.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:34 pm
Profile
Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:19 am
Posts: 44
Dangerous beans wrote:
What or rather who is Dirty Harry? (Other than the ex-commando character that Michael Caine plays in a hollywood film...)

I'm a little behind with the terminology...

Clint Eastwood character of a San Fransico cops from the 70s and 80s. Biggest quote is "Go ahead, make my day." Add in snarl here.


Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:32 am
Profile
Warrior

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Hawaii
So how is this dark elf hero like Clint Eastwood then? It's over my head too.


Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:30 am
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:17 am
Posts: 294
Location: The Spire of Malice
Generalization of the term "Dirty Harry Build": A Dreadlord build that makes the character a near unkillable, stand-alone figure that can hack apart a small army and suffer no damage in return. Often placed on a fast/flying mount to become a "firefighter" type character, going where he can hit the hardest or bog down a powerful enemy unit. 7th Ed. Dirty Harry builds saw the Pendant of Khaeleth almost always featured, with offensive tools altered according to taste.

Example (8th Ed.)
Dreadlord: HA, SDC, Shield, Cloak of Twilight, Obsidian Blade
Cost: 244 + mount of choice

The above creates a lord with 1+ AS (mounted), 3++ against range/spells, 4 attacks that Ignore AS and cause KB/D3 wounds in first round of CC. Any character/small unit that gets in this guy's way is toast, and he can hold his own against a larger unit until support arrives. That is a Dirty Harry.

Getting back to the topic of the Cloak's use, it's made for a stand-alone character. That means mobile sorceresses and firefighter lords. To be most effective, characters need to be mounted on a DP, DS, or dragon, though less so for the latter. Lacking AS and general combat skills, the Cloak benefits Sorceresses more so than CC lords, using the first round KB/MW(D3) rule as a deterrent as mentioned earlier. However, this doesn't mean that there is not benefit for CC lords, who can maximise the cloak's CC bonus, and use the 3++ to get around. Each side uses one of the 2 powers more than the other. Overall, the cloak makes itself a fairly balanced magic item IMO, having both offensive and defensive traits that make it hard to counter through army builds. Overcoming this item will take a general's wit more than anything.

_________________
Blood stains the snow. Glory to Khaine!


Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:45 am
Profile
Shade

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:38 pm
Posts: 102
my guess would be a lone character taking on impossible odds by himself and somehow succeeding, since none of the write ups have him with a ranged weapon, and frankly with the lose of Lifetaker, there is nothing that would compare to Dirty Harry's .44 magnum.


Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:46 am
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:03 am
Posts: 784
Like Rambo....? :roll:

_________________
8th Edition

W/D/L
86/1/5

New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
W/D/L

Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Armies
Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig


Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:04 am
Profile
The Guiding Eye
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
Murphey's Lawyer wrote:
Clint Eastwood character of a San Fransico cops from the 70s and 80s. Biggest quote is "Go ahead, make my day." Add in snarl here.

You're totally right, I was thinking of Harry Brown - which made me confused regarding the age thing! I've not been on any wargaming forums for some time, although I believe the last incarnation of unkillable dreadlords were named Captain Scarlets...

Anyway back on topic; I really love the cloak item although I do wonder at its points costing (surely it should be a 75pt item right?!). Although I can see the inherent uses on a sorceress (with the magic res 1 item and some arcane choice) I think that surely a solo flying lord (preferably on a dark pegasus so theres no way for his mount to die under his feet) with Lance (the cloak's offensive ability on works in the first round anyway) and some protective gear is one of the best ways of delivering this potency?

If so then what would you run to coincide with the cloak? I think I'd go for the Lance, Charmed Shield and 4++ Ward Save to ensure he reached that combat...

_________________
The Black Treasures of Naggaroth
The Cult of the Vile Rose History
Death of a Thousand Cuts armylist + batreps TLOEDG (The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen)


Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:51 am
Profile
Killed by Khorne
Killed by Khorne
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm
Posts: 2800
Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
Archamedius wrote:
What is the fascination with giving the Cloak of Twilight to a Sorceress (Lord or hero choice)? It seems like you pay a lot for the MR and with a whopping 1 attack the offense attributes of the item seem like a waste? What am I missing?


Presuming you are not wanting to get your sorceress into close combat, it offers her great protection from spells and shooting.

On a pegasus or dark steed it makes sense.

In comparison, a regular ward is more useful for a combat character.

That all said, the offensive abilities of a cloak go well with the combat ability of lords and masters (presuming you are prepared to risk the lack of ward saves in close combat with your master).

_________________
OldHammer Advanced Ruleset
- Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame


Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:47 pm
Profile
Slave on the Altar

Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 7:50 pm
Posts: 7
This is the character that I plan on using the cloak with:

Master (198 points)
Lance, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Brace of Repeater Handbows
Dark Pegasus
Magic: Cloak of Twilight (3+ Ward against shoot/spells, 1st round Killing Blow/D3 W)

This guy can reliably shrug off cannon balls, has a 1+ armor save in combat, can kill monsters in a single charge, and blast away chaff as needed when he lands to get ready for ideal charges. He's not cheap. But, I think his tools make him very useful.


Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:55 pm
Profile
Killed by Khorne
Killed by Khorne
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm
Posts: 2800
Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
@ Dangerous Beans

Nice to see you as well as many of the other veteran posters back on D.net.

What do you think of your Medusae idea from past wishlists coming to life? are you happy with the form/rules?

Also, I think your army fluff preshadowed some of the fluff changes in this new 8th book 8)

_________________
OldHammer Advanced Ruleset
- Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame


Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:21 pm
Profile
Slave on the Altar
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:54 am
Posts: 9
Prince daerlythe wrote:
Example (8th Ed.)
Dreadlord: HA, SDC, Shield, Cloak of Twilight, Obsidian Blade
Cost: 244 + mount of choice


Is that legal? Can you give a character two cloaks? Isn't this like giving a character a basic shield, and then giving him a magic shield too? Doesn't taking a magic item negate any rules from non-magical items of the same type, such as a magic sword and a regular sword don't count as an AHW?


Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:48 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9664
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Cloak is an enchanted item and not any kind of armor, so you can freely wear it with all the armor options.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:06 pm
Profile
Trainee Warrior

Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 11:23 am
Posts: 29
Back to the original topic, I think giving a SS the Cloak of Twilight is a great idea. Since you aren't wanting to get her into combat, then you do forfeit half the abilities. On the other hand, 3+ ward is a great way to keep her alive.

Question: Since it says it provides a ward save against spells, does this count for miscasts too? It was a kickback of doing a spell.


Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:42 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9664
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Miscasts are not spells, they are magical damage though (so Banner of the World Dragon protects against them)

for 45 points you get 4++. For only 5 points more you get 3++. It's a steal.

Yes, it's only against ranged attacks and spells... which is 99.9% of attacks that will hit your mobile sorceress.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:38 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 25 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software