Bloodwrack Medusa + Babysitter

[Dyvim tvar]

Since the Bloodwrack Medusa is Leadership 2 (when not on the Shrine) with Frenzy, at first glance it seems like it would be hard to use. You need to keep it near your General to have any real chance of keeping it from being baited into failed charges or to use its shooting attack (if it's close enough to shoot, it's close enough to charge).

But here's another option. Since the Medusa is Monstrous Infantry and not a monster, you can join a character to the Medusa and make a unit. A mounted Master (whether on Dark Steed or Pegasus) can join the Medusa for Leadership purposes and can also be used to absorb at least half of any missile fire directed to the pair (the character should have a 1+ save).

Still not convinced the Medusa is worthwhile when not on the Shrine, but this is a way to make sure she doesn't wander around the battlefield randomly chasing things.

[Erethain]

Would a sorceress not be better? she would be more expensive and has -1 LD compared to the master but you could have more uses for a mobile sorceress than a master possibly

[Dyvim tvar]

The issue is the fragility of the Sorceress and vulnerability to missile fire. She's better off in a bigger unit that can absorb shots.

The Master and Medusa would be a team for hunting war machines and chaff units, and could split up an an appropriate time.

[T.D.]

Nice idea, Dyvim.

I've been thinking of uses for the lone Medusa going back to how I used to use them in 3rd/4th edition:

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69705&p=844972&hilit=gorgon#p844972

I use to run a Gorgon back in the day when we (and any other army) could.

They were pretty rubbish stats wise but had the one use initiative roll spell 'turn to stone' - that was a nasty surprise!

i.e. plank the Gorgon beside your RBT and when enemy monster rider came calling you cast the spell. Once turned Eltharion's Griffon to stone that way. Joy of joys.

So, I would love to see the Gorgon (probably renamed as Medusae) back - a quality sculpt in the new Clash of the Titans style would be great, with Ushabti-style heavy bow weapons as Beans has suggested and the one use stone spell. Like a baby bolt thrower with a magical surprise for those who get too close

Stats wise our Bloodwrack is much better than the old Gorgon (aside from leadership which IIRC was 3 or 4). But unfortunately (or fortunately if you are a lover of multishot S4 KB shooting!) it's gaze is not a bound spell auto-kill on initiative test!

Leadership

Leadership is obviously key to not having a model which is too unstable to be relied upon. Which means ideally synchronising the Medusa's deployment and movements with:
- General
- BSB
- Ld Buff (BW Shrine)

I won't look into offensive uses of lone Medusae combined with Ld bubbles in this post. But with defensive army lists and deployments:

Reactive Strategies

The "Guard Snake"

Medusa deployed near:

- Crossbow bunker (SS General)

- Reaper Batteries

- Both of the above

- Backline COB BSB/BW Shrine optional

Role:

- Act as "guard dog" for SS bunker/Reapers (from now on referred to as Bunker)
- Move 7" single model for charge/countercharge threat on enemies closing in on Bunker
- 12" S4 KB (4) shooting for engaging lone heroes and chaff sent to harrass Bunker
- WS5, S4, T4 W3, I5, 4A (frenzy), MP, Fear, AYE for killing chaff and hurting enemy units bearing down on Bunker
- Sacrificial unit to speedbump or redirect powerful enemies bearing down on Bunker
- Potential of exposing enemy unit to another turn's worth of shooting/magic

Enemy psychology effect:

- Target saturation;
- do I shoot the SS bunker, the Medusa, or the Reapers?
- do I magic the SS bunker, the Medusa, or the Reapers?
- do I charge the SS bunker, the Medusa, or the Reapers?

Synergies:

- LD and magic buff bubbles (i.e. Life, Beasts) of the SS
- Fear in combination with magic and other DE LD effects
(Optional: CoB/BW Shrine buffs)

Compare to:
Unit of backfield harpies (75 points, WS3, S3, T3, I5, W5, A10, Ld 6, Fly) / Medusa (90 points, above stats and abilities)

[General Kael]

I like the idea of the medusa, and think I will try her out when I get the model.
I'm not sure I will hire a babysitter for her (she turned the last one to stone). I was thinking she could be good on the back field or the flanks. She would be used to hunt chaff, shoot low initiative monsters/knights or redirect. She is immune to panic due to frenzy, and to counter her frenzy you can just turn her around.

[Dalamar]

I would only use the solo medusa in two cases.

1 - general on foot, medusa slinks around general's unit as protection from flankers an chaff, staying withing inspiring presence range.
2 - Mobile general (dark steed), medusa has the same purpose but moves with the general where most needed.

Think of her as your general's bodyguard.

[Lysanthyr]

Everyone brings up her shooting attack but they never mention her BS. I don't have the book yet and I can't determine if I would even attemt to field her since she will suffer the -1 for multishot, as well as range and move, for a total of -3. She better have a BS5 or better to make her worth 90pts on foot. I also agree that the shrine not enhancing her in any way except for leadership a waste of points. Would rather buy another unit of Shades with GW over her anyday.

[Dalamar]

She's indeed BS5, so you will often be shooting at -2 (move and range) or -1 (move) since you will likely always move her considering how fragile he is.

I'm surprised a shooting attack that is essentially looking at someone is not Quick to Fire but oh well.

Remember she can't march and shoot either as she's neither skirmisher nor fast cavalry.

[Dangerous Beans]

I guess somebody read that thread and the unit concept we concocted in the Ideas Forum eh Tyrannus Deathbringer?!

A pity that their final result is a rather perplexing one - the model clearly has Scaly Skin and yet no save, the ability to march and not be able to stare at someone is a little strange, or as Dal says - not to even have Quick to Fire, and the Frenzy thing is a bit of a weird one although thats kinda backed up in the fluff...

But then again we could all talk about Medusa changes until the cows came hoem - the fact is we have what we have... I personally like the idea of a hunter master (relatively cheap) to join the Medusa - preferably non-lance armed (off the top of my head - Dragonhelm, Halberd, Dark Steed and you have 40 points for a talisman...) in case the unit gets charged.

Then they split off and roam around seperately in the backfield.

[T.D.]

I guess somebody read that thread and the unit concept we concocted in the Ideas Forum eh Tyrannus Deathbringer?!

There are a few things on D.net that look to have 'influenced' the new army book

Pretty cool though - wishlisting on this forum actually means something!

Also, just call me TD. Shorter and more amenable to conversations between adults

A pity that their final result is a rather perplexing one - the model clearly has Scaly Skin and yet no save, the ability to march and not be able to stare at someone is a little strange, or as Dal says - not to even have Quick to Fire, and the Frenzy thing is a bit of a weird one although thats kinda backed up in the fluff...

Yeah, I think they wanted most things in the book to be moderately powered and with weaknesses.

Still, even a few simple upgrades like scaly skin and quick to fire would have made the Medusa more fun and more playable

[Archamedius]

Everyone keeps talking about putting their babysitter on a dark steed or a Pegasus, but would it not make more sense for the babysitter (personally I like the level 1 shadow sorc for the combo of miasma + stare) on a Cold One? The Pegasus is wasted flight and the dark steed is wasted fast cav move 9. The cold one has move 7 to match the medusa, causes fear and gives the rider +2 AS. Seems to me to be the best option, so I am curious why no one has suggested it?

[Dyvim tvar]

Downside would be 2 psych tests at the beginning of the turn (frenzy + stupidity) if sufficiently close to the enemy

[Dangerous Beans]

I've just thought: why not use shades to cover the Medusa's advantage and give it some shooting protection? Coupled with a character with high magic resistence (ring of hotek use?), you'd have magic protection, shooting protection and a screen to stop you frenzy charging by accident - both units can evade enemy units and get into the backfield. The medusa can't shoot until super close to the enemy anyway so the penalty for 'shooting through' a unit is negligible.

Dark Riders or Harpies could do similarly at a pinch.

If used in this way I'm not sure whether a 'babysitter' is really needed?

Edit: to protect the Medusa from Cannons, couldn't you place a Master with the Charmed Shield in front of her (sideways), this gives her Hard Cover and a Cannonball shield. Seems a little much if you ask me though!

[Dalamar]

Actually, if you put a unit of shades (or any infantry) 1" in front of the medusa, you won't block her line of sight at all (she's pretty tall) but you will stop her charge options completely.

Dark Riders would be too tall and give enemy cover.

[Dangerous Beans]

Of course she is - good call Dal! If your general is nearby I don't really see much point in 'babysitting' her in that situation - although a relatively cheap hunter Master could be a good shout

[Kir]

Since it's a ranged "weapon" you have, why not move her into charge range of the enemy(preferrably within 12"), then stand&shoot? mournfangs charge her, every hit wounds on a 2+ no armor save, for that cheap amount of points sounds pretty good, even if she dies after. she also has decent combat stats for the price, as a flank monster. Also, if someone tries to bait her away, theres a good chance the bait is about as much points as the medusa, so there isn't too much loss. Also, if a cannon fires at her and kills her, she took a fatal shot for a hydra/karb/chariot of more points value. her low points cost makes me think you might not need a babysitter at all. Just field her somewhere as a target, speedbump AND flanker.

[Dalamar]

Her charge range is 7+2d6 so 19" maximum. That's how soon she needs to start testing her Ld2 frenzy to not charge something. That's also more than a march move to block something.

[Sulla]

Since it's a ranged "weapon" you have, why not move her into charge range of the enemy(preferrably within 12"), then stand&shoot? mournfangs charge her, every hit wounds on a 2+ no armor save, for that cheap amount of points sounds pretty good, even if she dies after. she also has decent combat stats for the price, as a flank monster. Also, if someone tries to bait her away, theres a good chance the bait is about as much points as the medusa, so there isn't too much loss. Also, if a cannon fires at her and kills her, she took a fatal shot for a hydra/karb/chariot of more points value. her low points cost makes me think you might not need a babysitter at all. Just field her somewhere as a target, speedbump AND flanker.

4 shots, -1 for stand and shoot, -1 for multishot, -1 for long range (can't be in close range or she wouldn't get stand and shoot due to the mournfangs Mv) gives bs2, Still think it's worth it?

This to me, is the main reason why you don't take her on foot. The shooting is not worth the extra hassle she brings. Only time I could see myself wanting to bring a foot-dusa is with a flying general, where 2 of them could run up the flank with him, then hang in his big Ld bubble taking out opponents in the backfield while he flank/rear charges stuff. Even then, warlocks could probably do the job better and certainly without needing a babysitter.

[Dalamar]

Hitting on 5+? That's as good as shades early in the game and dark riders most of the time. It's not as terrible as people think.
The potential of damage to (usually) small units of heavy cavalry should not be underestimated.

But at the same time not overestimated. Medusa is a cheap redirector that can dent a heavy cav unit or a monster as well as slaughter chaff. I'll pay 90 points for that.

[Sulla]

Hitting on 5+? That's as good as shades early in the game and dark riders most of the time. It's not as terrible as people think.
The potential of damage to (usually) small units of heavy cavalry should not be underestimated.

But at the same time not overestimated. Medusa is a cheap redirector that can dent a heavy cav unit or a monster as well as slaughter chaff. I'll pay 90 points for that.

Hitting on 5's with only 4 shots is bad. That;s less than 2 hits on average. I don't face enough low I, high armour to make that worthwhile. As to the price, I already do pay close to that... but it's core, fast cav and comes with a 4+ save, 5 wounds, 10 shots and the fast cav rules.

I've got no problem playing sub-optimal units in my list. I almost always try to have a manticore in mine, for example. And I'll certainly be trying the bloodwrack shrine to bolster my light infantry. But I just can't get behind solo medusa. Too fragile to be a combat unit, too expensive to be a sacrificial unit (IMO) and shooting that doesn't get the job done vs the targets I'd want to shoot in my opponents. It's just too 'jack of all trades, master of none' to be so high maintenance.

[Setomidor]

But at the same time not overestimated. Medusa is a cheap redirector that can dent a heavy cav unit or a monster as well as slaughter chaff. I'll pay 90 points for that.

I think she is maybe 25 pts to expensive to be really useful. She has some uses, but against some opponents (like other Dark Elves) she'll just be free 90pts which is slightly too much if you just consider her a redirector. Awesome model though!