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What is the fascination with giving the Cloak of Twilight to a Sorceress (Lord or hero choice)? It seems like you pay a lot for the MR and with a whopping 1 attack the offense attributes of the item seem like a waste? What am I missing?

A SS on BP with the TC has a 3++ vs ranged and magic. Since you are trying to keep her out of CC anyways this makes her very resilient. And she has a CC deterrent against chaff that will try to chase her down.

On CC lords and heros I would agree it is not worth it.

The cloak is certainly not wasted on a CC lord/hero, really depends on his setup. CC characters don't start the game in melee, they need to get there first. Besides, it's a kind of silly argument to say "cloak is great for sorcs, you get 3++!" whilst you forfeit half of the cloaks benefits.

The cloak can and will be used on CC and wizard characters alike.

Trax wrote:The cloak is certainly not wasted on a CC lord/hero, really depends on his setup. CC characters don't start the game in melee, they need to get there first. Besides, it's a kind of silly argument to say "cloak is great for sorcs, you get 3++!" whilst you forfeit half of the cloaks benefits.

The cloak can and will be used on CC and wizard characters alike.

Fair enough. I guess it might be a matter of taste then becuase I see the SS as more a priority for it than a CC lord. Mostly becuase my lords sit in bunkers so they are almost never picked off at range. So the 3++ ends up not being used for me.

But it might be meta based too.

If your lord sits in a bunker then indeed he won't need the cloak. The cloak is designed for solo DP or DS characters whether sorc or dl/master

The idea that the cloak is wasted on a lord is laughable at best. The Dirty Harry build is extremely viable, I've had tons of success with it thus far and honestly it is fast becoming a staple in mine and other's competitive lists.

OldCrow wrote:The idea that the cloak is wasted on a lord is laughable at best. The Dirty Harry build is extremely viable, I've had tons of success with it thus far and honestly it is fast becoming a staple in mine and other's competitive lists.

I guess yoh didn't read my context. I have avoided the Dirty Harry build before the new book becuase I didn't want the dirty looks. (The unkillable lord was a little over the top.)

But now I might bring out a Dragon for once. Heck I have the model.

A DL on a DP with RR 1+ and 3++ against magic and shooting, KB and D3 Wounds in the first round of combat is not something to be ignored ... IMHO

With a lance that DL or even just a master with cloak on peggy is a great answer for chaos chariot spam and some monsters.

Seriously I just can't stand why we tolerate naming conventions like " Dirty Harry"....Everytime I see or read it, it makes me feel like a hipster started playing whfb and picked DE..

What or rather who is Dirty Harry? (Other than the ex-commando character that Michael Caine plays in a hollywood film...)

I'm a little behind with the terminology...

It's some dreadlord build, I never follow those names.

Dangerous beans wrote:What or rather who is Dirty Harry? (Other than the ex-commando character that Michael Caine plays in a hollywood film...)

I'm a little behind with the terminology...

Clint Eastwood character of a San Fransico cops from the 70s and 80s. Biggest quote is "Go ahead, make my day." Add in snarl here.

So how is this dark elf hero like Clint Eastwood then? It's over my head too.

Generalization of the term "Dirty Harry Build": A Dreadlord build that makes the character a near unkillable, stand-alone figure that can hack apart a small army and suffer no damage in return. Often placed on a fast/flying mount to become a "firefighter" type character, going where he can hit the hardest or bog down a powerful enemy unit. 7th Ed. Dirty Harry builds saw the Pendant of Khaeleth almost always featured, with offensive tools altered according to taste.

Example (8th Ed.)
Dreadlord: HA, SDC, Shield, Cloak of Twilight, Obsidian Blade
Cost: 244 + mount of choice

The above creates a lord with 1+ AS (mounted), 3++ against range/spells, 4 attacks that Ignore AS and cause KB/D3 wounds in first round of CC. Any character/small unit that gets in this guy's way is toast, and he can hold his own against a larger unit until support arrives. That is a Dirty Harry.

Getting back to the topic of the Cloak's use, it's made for a stand-alone character. That means mobile sorceresses and firefighter lords. To be most effective, characters need to be mounted on a DP, DS, or dragon, though less so for the latter. Lacking AS and general combat skills, the Cloak benefits Sorceresses more so than CC lords, using the first round KB/MW(D3) rule as a deterrent as mentioned earlier. However, this doesn't mean that there is not benefit for CC lords, who can maximise the cloak's CC bonus, and use the 3++ to get around. Each side uses one of the 2 powers more than the other. Overall, the cloak makes itself a fairly balanced magic item IMO, having both offensive and defensive traits that make it hard to counter through army builds. Overcoming this item will take a general's wit more than anything.

my guess would be a lone character taking on impossible odds by himself and somehow succeeding, since none of the write ups have him with a ranged weapon, and frankly with the lose of Lifetaker, there is nothing that would compare to Dirty Harry's .44 magnum.

Like Rambo....?

Murphey's Lawyer wrote:Clint Eastwood character of a San Fransico cops from the 70s and 80s. Biggest quote is "Go ahead, make my day." Add in snarl here.

You're totally right, I was thinking of Harry Brown - which made me confused regarding the age thing! I've not been on any wargaming forums for some time, although I believe the last incarnation of unkillable dreadlords were named Captain Scarlets...

Anyway back on topic; I really love the cloak item although I do wonder at its points costing (surely it should be a 75pt item right?!). Although I can see the inherent uses on a sorceress (with the magic res 1 item and some arcane choice) I think that surely a solo flying lord (preferably on a dark pegasus so theres no way for his mount to die under his feet) with Lance (the cloak's offensive ability on works in the first round anyway) and some protective gear is one of the best ways of delivering this potency?

If so then what would you run to coincide with the cloak? I think I'd go for the Lance, Charmed Shield and 4++ Ward Save to ensure he reached that combat...

Archamedius wrote:What is the fascination with giving the Cloak of Twilight to a Sorceress (Lord or hero choice)? It seems like you pay a lot for the MR and with a whopping 1 attack the offense attributes of the item seem like a waste? What am I missing?

Presuming you are not wanting to get your sorceress into close combat, it offers her great protection from spells and shooting.

On a pegasus or dark steed it makes sense.

In comparison, a regular ward is more useful for a combat character.

That all said, the offensive abilities of a cloak go well with the combat ability of lords and masters (presuming you are prepared to risk the lack of ward saves in close combat with your master).

This is the character that I plan on using the cloak with:

Master (198 points)
Lance, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Brace of Repeater Handbows
Dark Pegasus
Magic: Cloak of Twilight (3+ Ward against shoot/spells, 1st round Killing Blow/D3 W)

This guy can reliably shrug off cannon balls, has a 1+ armor save in combat, can kill monsters in a single charge, and blast away chaff as needed when he lands to get ready for ideal charges. He's not cheap. But, I think his tools make him very useful.

@ Dangerous Beans

Nice to see you as well as many of the other veteran posters back on D.net.

What do you think of your Medusae idea from past wishlists coming to life? are you happy with the form/rules?

Also, I think your army fluff preshadowed some of the fluff changes in this new 8th book

Prince daerlythe wrote:Example (8th Ed.)
Dreadlord: HA, SDC, Shield, Cloak of Twilight, Obsidian Blade
Cost: 244 + mount of choice

Is that legal? Can you give a character two cloaks? Isn't this like giving a character a basic shield, and then giving him a magic shield too? Doesn't taking a magic item negate any rules from non-magical items of the same type, such as a magic sword and a regular sword don't count as an AHW?

Cloak is an enchanted item and not any kind of armor, so you can freely wear it with all the armor options.

Back to the original topic, I think giving a SS the Cloak of Twilight is a great idea. Since you aren't wanting to get her into combat, then you do forfeit half the abilities. On the other hand, 3+ ward is a great way to keep her alive.

Question: Since it says it provides a ward save against spells, does this count for miscasts too? It was a kickback of doing a spell.

Miscasts are not spells, they are magical damage though (so Banner of the World Dragon protects against them)

for 45 points you get 4++. For only 5 points more you get 3++. It's a steal.

Yes, it's only against ranged attacks and spells... which is 99.9% of attacks that will hit your mobile sorceress.