Cauldron, units, and horde requirements

[Archamedius]

Hey all,

I've never played skaven so I don't know how this works.

With the cauldron, when it joins a unit, for the purposes of meeting the requirements for a horde, how many models must be in the front rank along with the cauldron? It is 3 models wide, so is it 7 or 9? If someone could point out where the rules are for this, I would appreciate it, especially if the answer is 7, as if it is 9 I got it figured out.

Thanks,

Arch

[Kheirakh]

I've been wondering the same question. I hope it gets to FAQ.

[Liquidedust]

I've been wondering the same question. I hope it gets to FAQ.

It is in the rulebook actually, it displaces the footprint of 3 models wide so 7 + cauldron counts as 10 wide and is a horde.

[Archamedius]

I've been wondering the same question. I hope it gets to FAQ.

It is in the rulebook actually, it displaces the footprint of 3 models wide so 7 + cauldron counts as 10 wide and is a horde.

do you have a page reference?

[Thatdave]

BRB, page 98 - "Different-sized Bases", as part of the Characters/Characters in Units sections:

"...work out the unit's ranks (and therfore its rank bonus) as if the space was filled with rank and file troops."

[Archamedius]

Thanks!

[pxsaber]

Hi all,
I have anlther question on the cauldron, thought i out it in here...

So as i have the german book, maybe its clearly statet in your english books.

In my book it says that the cauldron itself uses a 4+ ward save,
WE and death hag ON it use a 5+
So when do i use which one? As for the hag i understand cause shes a character on a monster for that kind of use.
But the witches on the cob dont even have their own LP??

[Liquidedust]

Hi all,
I have anlther question on the cauldron, thought i out it in here...

So as i have the german book, maybe its clearly statet in your english books.

In my book it says that the cauldron itself uses a 4+ ward save,
WE and death hag ON it use a 5+
So when do i use which one? As for the hag i understand cause shes a character on a monster for that kind of use.
But the witches on the cob dont even have their own LP??

Cannot target the witches on the cob inidividually, they are part of the chariot

[pxsaber]

So i use a 5+ ward for the hag and a 4+ for anything the cob gets targeted?
What means that a cannonshot has to roll if it hits the hag or thd cob and after that i use the wars save?
(Didnt understand yet, why characters on chariots use different armor and ward saves...)

[Calisson]

Read BRB p.105.
DH on COB is a character on a chariot.
DH gets 5+, chariot gets 4+.

[Liquidedust]

So i use a 5+ ward for the hag and a 4+ for anything the cob gets targeted?
What means that a cannonshot has to roll if it hits the hag or thd cob and after that i use the wars save?
(Didnt understand yet, why characters on chariots use different armor and ward saves...)

Short version: cannonballs hit both mount and character at the same time, you wound and roll saves for them individually.

Only time I can think of that you randomize template hits on mounted characters would be stone throwers to determine who is "under the hole" but I might remember wrong, you could maybe correct me Calisson?

[Calisson]

You are correct.

[Ilderoth]

And just to be sure, when a cannonball hits the COB then the DH has to use her own instead of the cauldron´s toughness, right? Furthermore, since the DH is a character on a chariot, you only get victory points if kill both the hag and the cauldron, right? I ask these questions because I haven't played in a very long time with a character on a chariot.

[Calisson]

Q. when a cannonball hits the COB then the DH has to use her own instead of the cauldron´s toughness, right?
Furthermore, since the DH is a character on a chariot, you only get victory points if kill both the hag and the cauldron, right?
A: yes to both.

[Ilderoth]

Thanks Calisson!
That actually changes my perspective on the COB a bit, especially because of the victory points part. Furthermore, basically the DH is a kind of tax you pay in order to get the cauldron and its abilities, which you still have if, or should I say when, she dies. You can still use the bound spell, you still get the ward and you still benefit from its murderous prowess blessing if she is cut in half. In that case, I wouldn´t even bother giving her any expensive items, maybe just cry of war but that´s it.

[islands]

I got one more question about the cauldron. Does the hag get lookout sir from cannons for example?

[Enkiel]

I got one more question about the cauldron. Does the hag get lookout sir from cannons for example?

no.

character on CoB is gonna be a pain to keep alive.

[islands]

I got one more question about the cauldron. Does the hag get lookout sir from cannons for example?

no.

character on CoB is gonna be a pain to keep alive.

aight, then I'll have to remove it from my competative list ;<

[Gwii2510]

This might be wrong so don't shoot me right away.

When the cannonball hits, it hits both models. When cannonballs "normally" hit RnF you roll for each model it hits starting the front model. In case of the Cauldron do you do roll first for the Cauldron and then for the Hag? In the case of RnF units, if the Cannonball dosnt kill its target the "bounce" stops (Lets just say the opposing player rolled a 1 to wound) So if he dosnt outright kill the Cauldron he cannot hit the hag? or if the Cauldron save the onslaugt of the cannonball then the hag won't get hit?

I was either (unknowingly) cheating in the previous book or simply misinterpreted the rules (along with alot of my friends)

If the cannonball bounces into a monstrous infantry/beast/cavalry or monster, that model suffers a hit. However, if the monster or monstrous infantry/beast/cavalry model is not slain, the sheer bulk of the creature robs the cannonball of all momentum and the shot travels no further. page 113 in the BRB.

[Calisson]

Cannon bounce crosses COB's base. That's a template hitting a character mounted on a chariot. It means that both are hit simultaneously.

The rule p.113 you quote means that the cannnball needs to kill both the COB and the DH to be able to travel further. If either the COB, or the DH, or both survive, then the cannonball stops there.

[Gladisknight]

Cannon bounce crosses COB's base. That's a template hitting a character mounted on a chariot. It means that both are hit simultaneously.

The rule p.113 you quote means that the cannnball needs to kill both the COB and the DH to be able to travel further. If either the COB, or the DH, or both survive, then the cannonball stops there.

Actually, the CoB is a chariot. Chariots cannot prevent cannonballs from travelling further if they survive the hit (unlike monsters or monstrous beasts/infantry/cavalry).

[Calisson]

Actually, you're right, chariots are not listed in the exceptions of multiwound targets which would block cannonballs.
Well, it makes sense, when you see how full of void are our chariots...

[Askador]

If the DH on Cauldron dies.. does that remove the Cauldron too or will the two other witches keep moving it?
I think it will die too since its only a mount. But i want to be sure.

At the Tomb Kings the King is the only model on a Chariot so i never had that situation with more then 1 Model driving around.

[Calisson]

DH and chariot are two different targets, represented by a single model.
If COB dies and not DH, place a DH model on foot where the COB was.
If DH dies and not COB, just remove her model and the COB keeps business as before.
Note that victory pts are awarded only if both die/flee.