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The School of the Arcane 
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One thing you may consider to point out about the Dark lore attribute: the damage from the double/triple roll happens after the spell. This can be significant in some situations. Such as when a character is in a unit with at least 5 RnF since you could kill off some or all of the RnF and then the Lore Attribute damage kicks in and can affect the character.

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Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:10 pm
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Dragon Lord
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@Dragon9
You are correct, Dark Magic appears to be unique in this regard, I will update it.

New update with Lore of Beasts now described.

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Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:21 am
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Another thing to point out regarding Wildheart: The lore attribute specifies what will give you the +1 to cast, and one of thos ehtings is Chariots. It doesn't specify chariots with beasts pulling it, so technically, any unit with a Cauldron of Blood will give you the +1 to cast.

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"The dark elves have everything cool. They are pirate blood cultist ninjas riding dinosaurs and flinging magic. They're metal. They're the most metal race out there, rivaled only by Warriors of Chaos. They bring a cauldron of boiling blood onto the battlefield. You don't get much more metal than that." -- Mostlyharmless on Warseer

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Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:53 pm
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Dragon9 wrote:
Another thing to point out regarding Wildheart: The lore attribute specifies what will give you the +1 to cast, and one of thos ehtings is Chariots. It doesn't specify chariots with beasts pulling it, so technically, any unit with a Cauldron of Blood will give you the +1 to cast.
:burns: Heresy: do you consider the Will of the Gods as a beast? :burns: :burns: :burns:

It seems a case where RAW is going ways too far. If the chariot has no beast pulling it, use common sense.

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Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:00 pm
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1. Mages in monsterform cannot use Magic items (wardsaves, dispell scroll..)
2. Mages in monsterform can use abilities (ASF; inspiring presence...)
3. Where does a mage go when he becomes a Monster? (If he leaves unit and combat, dont dispell and shoot him with cannons...)
4. Where does a Monster go when it becomes a mage? (Does he reenter the unit he left when he was a Monster, which rank must he join on wich side?)

If one were able to cast it on a mounted mage it would make up for some nice conversions (Hydra riding a Dragon ;) ), but with its extreme casting values and ist rules issues, ist perhaps a good spell if you want to start a 2-hours-rules-quarell and better left for some friendly beer&brezel games.


Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:53 pm
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Dragon Lord
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That is actually correct, Shrine or Cauldron would benefit from the +1 to cast from the attribute, as would the unit that it joined. So will any unit with a mounted character in it.

@Paricidas
1. correct
2. correct
3. the mage stays inside the unit if the base size allows, otherwise moves to the side of a unit per characters with mismatched bases rules.
4. as it's still part of the unit (unless it left it that is), it stays part of the unit in a correct formation.

Yes, Monsters can't join units, but the spell specifically allows the wizard to remain with the unit. There is absolutely no ground for any argument.

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Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:12 pm
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Calisson wrote:
Dragon9 wrote:
Another thing to point out regarding Wildheart: The lore attribute specifies what will give you the +1 to cast, and one of thos ehtings is Chariots. It doesn't specify chariots with beasts pulling it, so technically, any unit with a Cauldron of Blood will give you the +1 to cast.
:burns: Heresy: do you consider the Will of the Gods as a beast? :burns: :burns: :burns:

It seems a case where RAW is going ways too far. If the chariot has no beast pulling it, use common sense.


Haha! We'll, I would say the same thing about that whole Strength of Khaine argument. ;) Besides, it's only really an eyebrow raiser with the CoB. The shrine has the Medusa. Still, CoB is a Chariot, so it definitely falls under it as well.

And there's no heresy here... the Emprah is elsewhere. :P

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Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:25 am
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Dragon Lord
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Lore of Metal is up, discuss.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:53 am
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By and large, I agree with your analysis of the Lore of Metal. It is not the best lore in every matchup, but there are a few in-my-opinion incredibly important points to be made with regards to the lore of metal. One of the big recurring problems for DE army lists is the ever-dreaded 1+ cav/MC units. Executioners can deal with them, but they will probably have a movement edge over infantry. Knights can handle them as well, but they are expensive and prime candidates for enemy artillery or magic. Lore of metal can give you the tools to handle that (often small, thankfully) part of the enemy army that your troops cant hope to face in melee and live.

Lvl 1 scroll caddy:
Take a lvl 1 metal sorceress, give her a power scroll. Her one job? Scroll a boosted searing doom onto the enemy MC. 2d6 hits wounding on 2+ slaying outright onto a MC unit should be relied upon to take out 2 models, which might not equal the cost of the sorceress, but it will severely hamper the units figthing abilities, and will often force a panic test as well. Remember to leave the lvl 1's unit before casting, as it WILL result in a miscast :) another bonus option is to get the final transmutation if you're lucky enough to roll the 6.

No saves of any kind allowed:
Remember the final transmutation slays models with NO SAVE of any kind. That phoenix guard deathstar or banner of the world dragon giving you trouble? FT them. Those demons? FT them. Any form of big horde? FT them. It is not as killy as e.g. dwellers against the "right opponent", but it is allround reliable to kill any 1W model on a 5+. Dont rely on it to kill characters; just take it as a bonus when it happens.

Amplify your own troops:
Lore of dark magic and lore of shadow has great hexes that increases your chances in combat. Lore of Metal has both hexes and augments, and many of them are very allround flexible. Reduce their heavy armor units by 1 armor every single turn. As you said, have your executioners hit on 2+. Maybe even give it to your knights on the charge, making absolutely damned sure that they drop that monster! And lets not forget. Our single, big weakness of our infantry is the fact it gets shot to pieces by BS shooting. Give executioners or BG a 3+ or witch elves a 5+? Yes please!


Lore of Metal offers no "big, game changing spell" as you might put it such as dwellers, 13th, etc. but what it does is give you a wide range of tools that will help in one of the key areas where DE have trouble: vs armor.

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Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:44 am
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Thraundil wrote:
Lvl 1 scroll caddy:
Take a lvl 1 metal sorceress, give her a power scroll. Her one job? Scroll a boosted searing doom onto the enemy MC. 2d6 hits wounding on 2+ slaying outright onto a MC unit should be relied upon to take out 2 models, which might not equal the cost of the sorceress, but it will severely hamper the units figthing abilities, and will often force a panic test as well. Remember to leave the lvl 1's unit before casting, as it WILL result in a miscast :) another bonus option is to get the final transmutation if you're lucky enough to roll the 6.


If i remember correctly you can't use powerscroll when you boost a spell, or has it changed?


Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:05 pm
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Koller wrote:
Thraundil wrote:
Lvl 1 scroll caddy:
Take a lvl 1 metal sorceress, give her a power scroll. Her one job? Scroll a boosted searing doom onto the enemy MC. 2d6 hits wounding on 2+ slaying outright onto a MC unit should be relied upon to take out 2 models, which might not equal the cost of the sorceress, but it will severely hamper the units figthing abilities, and will often force a panic test as well. Remember to leave the lvl 1's unit before casting, as it WILL result in a miscast :) another bonus option is to get the final transmutation if you're lucky enough to roll the 6.


If i remember correctly you can't use powerscroll when you boost a spell, or has it changed?


Hum, I must be behind on my FAQ... I could be mistaken here.

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Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:53 pm
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Thraundil wrote:
Hum, I must be behind on my FAQ... I could be mistaken here.


OKay found it here :)
Reference Section – Arcane Items, Power Scroll.
Change the last sentence to read ‘During the casting attempt,
the casting value of the spell is halved (rounding up). You
cannot choose to cast a boosted version of a spell when using a
Power Scroll.’


Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:33 pm
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Thank you for this, I have learnt a lot!

Bookmarked and anxiously waiting for updates :)

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Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:26 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Updated with Lore of Light.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:51 pm
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Dalamar wrote:
Updated with Lore of Light.


Nice writeup. Agreed on pretty much all of those points. Also, Timewarp on a Kharibdyss makes Feast of Bones much easier to pull off (albeit somewhat situational).

Another point to consider is that Net of Amyntok combines well with a Soulblight from our Warlocks (or a boosted Word of Pain, access to which can be guaranteed with the Tome of Furion), increasing both the likelihood of a target being prevented from acting and taking more damage from it.

If the unit includes an opponent's main caster, there will be a substantial risk of spells being prevented and damage being inflicted on the unit. If the opponent elects to separate a caster from the target unit in order to limit the risk of Net triggering, they've put the caster in the open and made them vulnerable to any number of threats from our army. Either way, that's a win.

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Last edited by Haagrum on Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:55 am
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They could move the caster to another unit... or they could fail the S test, and have the caster stuck with the unit. I'm going to add Soulblight to Synergies.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:09 am
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This thread is excellent. I have to say I am still surprised Dark Elves got all the BRB lores (mostly Light & Life). Leanring alot about Magic phase which is exciting for a newb.

Few things I noticed and perhaps a question or two;

1) Word of Pain seems to be the anti-Hand of Glory.
2) It seems that elves of any flavor get a lot of benefit from Beasts. Elves do everything well except Str & T, and Beasts covers this nicely. I could see a good match up of a lv 4 Beast Sorc and a Lv 2 Dark/Shadow. Beasts for your units, the Dark/Shadow to reduce the opponents stats where they are already usually lower than elves. This seems like it would give us a big edge in most fights. Imagining Witch Elves all Frenzied with Wyssan's attacking Chaos Warriors who have been pretty much neutured by Malikoth's.

Question: Does Wyssan's stack? If I had say two lv 1 Beast Sorcs with Wyssan's can they both cast it on the same unit? I read earlier that since CoB is a chariot it technically benefits from the Lore Attribute, so would double casting Wyssan's just make things truly god awful (for our opponent of course ;) )?


Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:29 pm
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1)
Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma is an anti Hand of Glory. Word of Pain is far superior due to ability to lower WS/BS to zero (humans beware!) And due to lowering Strength when boosted.

2)
Elves don't get as much benefit from beasts as it would appear at first glance. Wildform is great, Amber Spear is a sometimes much needed cannon and the curse can stop your opponent's expensive units in their tracks.
The remaining spells boost characters and our characters are expensive enough that we can't afford to spam them unlike humans or beastmen. It's best used for a support wizard I believe.

As to your question, yes, wildforms stack.

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Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:05 pm
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Dalamar wrote:
1)
Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma is an anti Hand of Glory. Word of Pain is far superior due to ability to lower WS/BS to zero (humans beware!) And due to lowering Strength when boosted.

2)
Elves don't get as much benefit from beasts as it would appear at first glance. Wildform is great, Amber Spear is a sometimes much needed cannon and the curse can stop your opponent's expensive units in their tracks.
The remaining spells boost characters and our characters are expensive enough that we can't afford to spam them unlike humans or beastmen. It's best used for a support wizard I believe.

As to your question, yes, wildforms stack.


Thank you for the answers/analysis. I hadn't considered that since elves cannot 'spam' the way humans can (both sheer numbers of troops and then characters) so humans can get literaly more benefit from beasts.

I have to imagine most opponents would try to stop one Wyssan's from getting through, let alone two on the same unit, but it's nice to know I could do it if I had the opportunity.

And wow Word of Pain. Not much else to say there.


Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:08 pm
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Last Saturday there was no update as I was out all day at a family gathering. Resuming updates next Saturday

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Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:50 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Lore of Life is now available.

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7th edition army book:
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Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:32 am
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Thank you D. Your insights have enlightened my philosophy around magic.


Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:19 am
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Good write up.

I have a couple of extra points on the synergy of DE forces and light magic.

Light magic synergizes very well with our squishy monsters.

Phas Protection protects them from cannonballs etc
Speed of Lights WS10,I10 is also very interesting, as usually the monster is hit on 5+ and it will strike first vs most opponents.
Light of battle helps the ld6 monsters
Bironas Timewarp gives them much needed ASF, along with M10 and +1 A (making feast of bones much more likely)


Speed of Light and especially Timewarp also synergizes well with our Chariots and Cavelry.

A bironas timewarp on a chariot gives 4 extra attacks (one for each crew and Cold One), and the Cold Ones ASF to possibly reroll attacks.

Each Cold One Knight / Dark Rider / Warlock also gets 2 extra attacks (rider and mount), and as above possible RR to hit for the mount.


In other words, a list focusing on monsters and/or cavalry (and chariots to a lesser degree) will synergize well with a light wizard.

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Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:52 pm
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That is indeed correct. I don't write about synergies with units on purpose though as it would bloat the article. Perhaps when I'm done with this one I will examine each of our units and try to determine best lore to support them.

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
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Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:15 pm
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I love your write-ups Dalamar. It realy helos me with my choices of lore :D

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