Facing Lizardmen
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Facing Lizardmen
I'm facing my friends Lizardmen on Saturday and was wondering if you could provide me with some tips and what to look out for in regards to the lizardmen? It's going to be my second game with my dark elves and it's a 1k game but apart from knowing they are hard to break I know next to nothing about them.
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Setomidor
- Malekith's Best Friend
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- Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
- Location: Umeå, Sweden
Re: Facing Lizardmen
Dark Elves against Lizards is a game of rock, paper scissors:
- Poisoned shooting from Skins is really dangerous for Monsters and expensive elite infantry. However, they need to get reasonably close to hurt us so you can keep them at bay with shooting and magic missiles. Also, the 4+ AS on Dark Riders is godsend as it allows you to charge the Skinks from a distance and survive the Stand and Shoot.
- Be careful around Salamanders and (massed) Razordons. The templates from Salamanders will hurt our expensive infantry _a lot_. Use Bolt Throwers to kill them from a distance, or Pegasus masters/Warlocks to kill them up close.
- Our elite infantry (like Executioners) should have no problem what so ever beating Saurus and Temple Guard in CC, just make sure they get there without dying.
- Watch out for Terradons, they will make a mess out of small units (like Shades) and will threaten our Bolt Throwers. Terradons are high-priority target, kill them with Bolt Throwers and Magic Missiles or charge them down with fast cav or characters.
Good luck!
- Poisoned shooting from Skins is really dangerous for Monsters and expensive elite infantry. However, they need to get reasonably close to hurt us so you can keep them at bay with shooting and magic missiles. Also, the 4+ AS on Dark Riders is godsend as it allows you to charge the Skinks from a distance and survive the Stand and Shoot.
- Be careful around Salamanders and (massed) Razordons. The templates from Salamanders will hurt our expensive infantry _a lot_. Use Bolt Throwers to kill them from a distance, or Pegasus masters/Warlocks to kill them up close.
- Our elite infantry (like Executioners) should have no problem what so ever beating Saurus and Temple Guard in CC, just make sure they get there without dying.
- Watch out for Terradons, they will make a mess out of small units (like Shades) and will threaten our Bolt Throwers. Terradons are high-priority target, kill them with Bolt Throwers and Magic Missiles or charge them down with fast cav or characters.
Good luck!
Re: Facing Lizardmen
Thanks for the tips!
I don't think my list is especially ideal then it seems
although perhaps is has a chance.
Sorceress - Level 2 - Sacrifical Dagger - 140
30 Spearmen - Full Command / Gleaming Pennant- 305
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70
10 Shades - Great swords - 180
Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180
5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125
Total 1000
I don't think my list is especially ideal then it seems
although perhaps is has a chance.Sorceress - Level 2 - Sacrifical Dagger - 140
30 Spearmen - Full Command / Gleaming Pennant- 305
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70
10 Shades - Great swords - 180
Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180
5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125
Total 1000
Re: Facing Lizardmen
Setomidor wrote:Dark Elves against Lizards is a game of rock, paper scissors:
- Poisoned shooting from Skins is really dangerous for Monsters and expensive elite infantry. However, they need to get reasonably close to hurt us so you can keep them at bay with shooting and magic missiles. Also, the 4+ AS on Dark Riders is godsend as it allows you to charge the Skinks from a distance and survive the Stand and Shoot.
- Be careful around Salamanders and (massed) Razordons. The templates from Salamanders will hurt our expensive infantry _a lot_. Use Bolt Throwers to kill them from a distance, or Pegasus masters/Warlocks to kill them up close.
- Our elite infantry (like Executioners) should have no problem what so ever beating Saurus and Temple Guard in CC, just make sure they get there without dying.
- Watch out for Terradons, they will make a mess out of small units (like Shades) and will threaten our Bolt Throwers. Terradons are high-priority target, kill them with Bolt Throwers and Magic Missiles or charge them down with fast cav or characters.
Good luck!
how do the skinks need to get close to be effective? they can march and shoot and with poisen alwais hit on 6's, with 10 skinks and 20 shots they get about 3 or 4 hits a volley?
i'm having a really hard time vs the lizardman player, especially his skinks and his magic.
he has 3 channels on his slann on 5+ and 2 from lvl 1's and he can take a dispel dice he has left from my magic phase to his magic phase as power dice.
how do you deal with it?
Re: Facing Lizardmen
Hi!
Skinks have a good range due to march and shoot for sure. You simply need to foresee where they will be marching to shoot at you and then threaten that area with a charge.
6's don't autohit! If they march, shoot two shots and are in long distance range, they're hitting on a 7. No more poison.
What's the range? 12'?
Thus, they will get those 3-4 wounds only if being VERY close. Other than that it'll be more often than not no wound at all. And don't forget that we have armour saves.
I'd be careful with their characters. They can hit very hard. Most of the times, they use one lord or hero choice with a 1up rerollable as it's cheap. Use a single shot from the bolt thrower in that case.
Skinks have a good range due to march and shoot for sure. You simply need to foresee where they will be marching to shoot at you and then threaten that area with a charge.
6's don't autohit! If they march, shoot two shots and are in long distance range, they're hitting on a 7. No more poison.
What's the range? 12'?
Thus, they will get those 3-4 wounds only if being VERY close. Other than that it'll be more often than not no wound at all. And don't forget that we have armour saves.
I'd be careful with their characters. They can hit very hard. Most of the times, they use one lord or hero choice with a 1up rerollable as it's cheap. Use a single shot from the bolt thrower in that case.
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Setomidor
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1294
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
- Location: Umeå, Sweden
Re: Facing Lizardmen
@Darktalon: I think that looks strong for a 1000pts game. Your magic is strong; you have access to double doom bolt and maybe Chill wind, and the lore attribute actually is very good against skinks. Soulblight will be very useful for your spears, and Shades + Bolt Thrower will prove very useful as well.
@jeffman: It depends on the load out on the skinks, but I guess most will have Javelins for the reason stated by Falstaff (the multishot make them lose Poison). With javelins, they will only get one shot each and they have to be within 12" of you to use them. 12" is close, it means that you always can charge them and have a more than 50% chance of rolling high enough.
@jeffman: It depends on the load out on the skinks, but I guess most will have Javelins for the reason stated by Falstaff (the multishot make them lose Poison). With javelins, they will only get one shot each and they have to be within 12" of you to use them. 12" is close, it means that you always can charge them and have a more than 50% chance of rolling high enough.
Re: Facing Lizardmen
so when hitting on 7s no more poisen? nice!!
tnx for the info !!
tnx for the info !!
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Entreri bloodletter
- Assassin
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Re: Facing Lizardmen
Just be aware that he can choose to shoot only single shots with no penalty instead of double shooting with the -1. Most people will keep the poison possible by being able to hit on 6's, even if it means that they are only getting half the shots. Not that half the shots is bad for us, just something to be aware of that he can do.
Echoing what other people have said, try to keep the hydra away from skinks, they can really chew it up. Your shades will make quick work of the skinks, the hydra can take care of any salamanders/razordons. If he's running an ancient stegadon keep your hydra away, he can upgrade it to do D3 wounds per impact hit on the charge, with just average rolls it will easily kill the hydra in one round of combat.
Echoing what other people have said, try to keep the hydra away from skinks, they can really chew it up. Your shades will make quick work of the skinks, the hydra can take care of any salamanders/razordons. If he's running an ancient stegadon keep your hydra away, he can upgrade it to do D3 wounds per impact hit on the charge, with just average rolls it will easily kill the hydra in one round of combat.
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Jabroniville
- Warrior
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- Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 7:01 am
Re: Facing Lizardmen
As a Lizardmen player, I can add some stuff.
Skink Poison is annoying to low-armoured stuff sure, but their best usage tends to be as Small Unit Hunters or charge-redirectors- you can REALLY mess up someone's day by angling in a certain direction with your cheap Skink units (Skirmisher units can be only 100 points for a dozen guys), sending elite chargers off in another direction, or preventing a charge on another unit. Hunt these down with Dark Riders/Chariots/anything, because they can't hold up in combat, and you don't want good units getting redirected.
Saurus are top-tier for Basic Core troops- they will eat Spearmen alive (I've fought similar Elven Spearmen and killed 10-12 PER TURN with basic Saurus). 11 points each though, so a 1000-point game won't use a lot.
Slann Magic is arguably the greatest in Warhammer (though thankfully nerfed from 7th Edition), AND they can be a top-tier General/BSB as well. In addition, the Temple Guard unit is basically unbreakable with a Slann in it- focus on using a bog unit against it, because it WILL hold you up in combat. TG are good in battle, but not QUITE up to Black Guard/Executioner standard because of lower WS (and their armour is barely better than Dark Elves'), so you CAN kill them, but they WILL hold you up for a good while. Since the units are quite wide and large, it's best to surround them with multiple units (GOOD ones or Monsters- they will eat poorer troops alive with multiple attacks). Granted, if this is a 1000 point game I don't see them making a big appearance.
Saurus Lords are in that elite S5/T5 Tier that can be lethal. As a Lizard player, I ALWAYS amp up my Attacks when fighting Elves, so get ready for that- our low Toughness & armour won't hold up to repeated impacts. That D3 Wounds Blade is also quite nasty, since we have so many large, multi-Wound targets for it.
Salamanders/Razordons will eat low-armoured infantry in big blocks alive. Kill these or charge them as a first priority. They're still strong in combat though, so don't just put some disposable garbage troops against them- Magic & Bolt Throwers are best because they can't hit back!
Bastiladons are underrated by many other armies I'm noticing, but Lizardmen players LOVE them- they're CHEAP (150 point!) Monsters that are rubbish in combat, but have EXCEPTIONAL toughness, and never underestimate Thunderstomps, even at S4. They are very tricky for holding up against impossible odds (2+ Armour Save) and allowing supporting troops to pile in. I had one run down a unit of Elven Spearmen AND Bowmen in one game, and in another, took THREE TURNS of combat from a Monster-Killing Bretonnian Lord on a Hippogriff to bring down! And since Elves are REALLY BAD once we get stuck in combat, this is a menace to be sure.
They have two variants on Bastiladons, but I find that their extras (A Magic Missile and an S2 Area Effect Spell on close-by units that also summons Swarms) are less-useful than the fact that they're just big & tough Monsters.
Skink Poison is annoying to low-armoured stuff sure, but their best usage tends to be as Small Unit Hunters or charge-redirectors- you can REALLY mess up someone's day by angling in a certain direction with your cheap Skink units (Skirmisher units can be only 100 points for a dozen guys), sending elite chargers off in another direction, or preventing a charge on another unit. Hunt these down with Dark Riders/Chariots/anything, because they can't hold up in combat, and you don't want good units getting redirected.
Saurus are top-tier for Basic Core troops- they will eat Spearmen alive (I've fought similar Elven Spearmen and killed 10-12 PER TURN with basic Saurus). 11 points each though, so a 1000-point game won't use a lot.
Slann Magic is arguably the greatest in Warhammer (though thankfully nerfed from 7th Edition), AND they can be a top-tier General/BSB as well. In addition, the Temple Guard unit is basically unbreakable with a Slann in it- focus on using a bog unit against it, because it WILL hold you up in combat. TG are good in battle, but not QUITE up to Black Guard/Executioner standard because of lower WS (and their armour is barely better than Dark Elves'), so you CAN kill them, but they WILL hold you up for a good while. Since the units are quite wide and large, it's best to surround them with multiple units (GOOD ones or Monsters- they will eat poorer troops alive with multiple attacks). Granted, if this is a 1000 point game I don't see them making a big appearance.
Saurus Lords are in that elite S5/T5 Tier that can be lethal. As a Lizard player, I ALWAYS amp up my Attacks when fighting Elves, so get ready for that- our low Toughness & armour won't hold up to repeated impacts. That D3 Wounds Blade is also quite nasty, since we have so many large, multi-Wound targets for it.
Salamanders/Razordons will eat low-armoured infantry in big blocks alive. Kill these or charge them as a first priority. They're still strong in combat though, so don't just put some disposable garbage troops against them- Magic & Bolt Throwers are best because they can't hit back!
Bastiladons are underrated by many other armies I'm noticing, but Lizardmen players LOVE them- they're CHEAP (150 point!) Monsters that are rubbish in combat, but have EXCEPTIONAL toughness, and never underestimate Thunderstomps, even at S4. They are very tricky for holding up against impossible odds (2+ Armour Save) and allowing supporting troops to pile in. I had one run down a unit of Elven Spearmen AND Bowmen in one game, and in another, took THREE TURNS of combat from a Monster-Killing Bretonnian Lord on a Hippogriff to bring down! And since Elves are REALLY BAD once we get stuck in combat, this is a menace to be sure.
They have two variants on Bastiladons, but I find that their extras (A Magic Missile and an S2 Area Effect Spell on close-by units that also summons Swarms) are less-useful than the fact that they're just big & tough Monsters.