Dealing with the usual threats

[Wrathbaby]

So what ways have people found to deal with things such as demigryphs, steam tanks, hellpits and the like? I'm working on a monster mash list and it's occurred to me that without an executioner horde, or the CoB, I don't have much to deal with demigryphs especially, but I imagine there are a whole load of other similar things to deal with. All solutions (except flipping the table) welcome.

[bugsbunny]

ill list my set of options for my monster list ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=74026 ) sorted by range from far to near.

. imho demigryphs and stanks are to be shot with reapers (single shot . no as . d3 wounds)

. then try some magic (death nukes)

. then stare at them with shrine (no amourssaves woud on i guess 4+ - not too bad)

. charge demigryphs from flank with peggy/dragon and continue staring at stank

. pray if this does not help

[Gerner]

I think 1+ AS are a lot harder to deal with than big (regen) monsters. It is important to remember that they are both very different.

Against monsters with high Toughness and low Armour Save (like War Spinxs, Giants & Hellpit Abominations) everything with poison is ideal - the two best are Witch Elves (you don't have to bring the Cauldron) and Warlocks, but the Kharibdyss is also able to do the task. The Sisters of Slaughter are also amazing at taking these out since they have a 4+ ward save against everything in CC and wound on both 5-6. Flaming banner will deny regen, but they can be stopped by a single flame resist character.

Against 1+ Armour Save we have three main choices, the Executioners (these guys keep failing me), Reaper Bolt Throwers and the Kharibdyss. I prefer the two last, but they both have their weakness. The Kharibdyss are easy for your opponent to kill since it "only" has Toughness 5 and a 4+ Armour Save - Skullcrushers will wound you on a 4+, you have a 6+ Armoursave left and they have more attacks than you. The RBTs can easily be avoided by your opponent with terrain making it hard to hit them. If they are on long range (and nothing else) you will average deal 0.83 wounds per RBT.
If you have the point try to look into some characters who can take care of 1+ MC since they are incredible hard nuts to crack - better just to annoy them the whole game and deny them any actions.

[T.D.]

Metal magic, anyone?

Obsidian Blade, ideally on a mobile Lord, is another option from the toolbox.

After that strength boosts such as the potion of strength, Giant and Ogre blades, or in a pinch the humble great weapon.

[Gerner]

Metal magic, anyone?

Obsidian Blade, ideally on a mobile Lord, is another option from the toolbox.

After that strength boosts such as the potion of strength, Giant and Ogre blades, or in a pinch the humble great weapon.

Metal Magic is of the very best, but I think it can easy be stopped by your opponent unless you IF it.

Personal I'm not a fan of the Great Weapon since you loose the re-rolls (and I can't hit without).

[T.D.]

Metal Magic is of the very best, but I think it can easy be stopped by your opponent unless you IF it.

You could say that about other lores

Personal I'm not a fan of the Great Weapon since you loose the re-rolls (and I can't hit without).

I prefer lances and halberds as well. But for a tailored list against certain opponents the multiple rounds of S6 can be the better option.


Another approach not yet mentioned is the Razor standard on Cold One Knights. S6 -4AS on the charge, S4 -2AS (both Knights and mounts) on the grind. Whilst not as much of a can opener as Execs, they are not too shabby against MC and are more likely to find their target.

[Datalink7]

There is also Shadow Magic for Mindrazor, and Crone Hellebron (who is a beast)

[bugsbunny]

well im not good in maths but it apperas to me a better choice to have a halberd than a great weapon as the rerolls still are more likely to cause more wounds than him haveing an as better by one. especially when it comes to human cans.

[Thraundil]

If I may be so shameless as to direct you to some fun-calculation I did in a recent post of mine. While alot of the post really does waste abit of time reaching the inevitable conclusion that executioners are a better option than knights, one prime function of cold one knights does arise.

Cost for cost, e.g. 5 demigryphon knights vs 10 cold one knights (FC, no magic banners, CoK charge), on average, the cold one knights will win first round of combat and seeing the demis with a 27% chance NOT to break, assuming no BSB nearby. http://druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74071

As already stated, high T monsters are dealt with by poison. Warlocks are amazing since they are both mobile, subtracts a point of armorsave from the big guys and pack a relatively good amount of attacks while sporting a 4++ of their own, plus immunity to thunderstomp. Most monsters are low LD, and rely on their S to deny saves + stomp through infantry, so you can actually be lucky to break the sucker.

My go-to vs monstrous cavalry is the threat of multicharges. Knights + a pegmaster with cloak will pack a punch. Knights on their own as mentioned above can go toe-to-toe with MC for one combat round (not any more than this though) and if you can support with magic, stand a reasonable chance of scoring some kills. Its a tough nut for sure, though, best bet is to force him out in the open for a few RBT shots, and THEN charge with your can openers (or let him charge the can openers...)

Just keep in mind that MC that charge executioners will win combat the first 2 rounds. So dont base all your hopes on them holding!

[Dalamar]

Unless your Executioners are frenzied (and they should be with the ease of access to frenzy that we have now)... then they mince through MC like a hot draich through butter (as done by mine twice already against demigryphs)

[Askador]

Ive got a Dreadlord in my Witches block for AS1+ Peoples like Demis, Skullcrusher and stuff like that.

Obsidian blade, Other Trickster Shard, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield.
Rerolls on Hit, rerolls on all wounds with the CoB, allows no armor and you have to reroll WS. He usualy kills 1 or 2 of them alone and the rest is just poison hits from the witches.

But i do have massive problems with Cannons. I can kill them in round 2 but one round of shooting is hard to take for my list.

[triouto]

Some armies have access to multiple cheap chariots (O&G especially), or even (gasp) chariots as core (TK, beastmen and WoC come to mind). How do people generally deal with armies that have an overload of chariots? I've never faced 6+ chariot WoC armies for example, but I struggle to think of a reliable response to such a force. Doombolts, RBT's? Chariots are a tough match for most chaff, and impact hits wreak havoc in larger, fightier blocks of ASF T3 elves..

[Thraundil]

Redirect them, hit them with all ranged high S you have. Volleys from RBT (better than singleshot vs T5 chariots), doombolts, pegasus mounted character with a cloak can also drop one on his own. Or make sure to charge THEM. Chaff dont have to break them, they just have to hold them in place

Also, warlocks are good vs chariots since they outmaneuver them and can reliably grind vs them due to their ward.

[Askador]

Some armies have access to multiple cheap chariots (O&G especially), or even (gasp) chariots as core (TK, beastmen and WoC come to mind). How do people generally deal with armies that have an overload of chariots? I've never faced 6+ chariot WoC armies for example, but I struggle to think of a reliable response to such a force. Doombolts, RBT's? Chariots are a tough match for most chaff, and impact hits wreak havoc in larger, fightier blocks of ASF T3 elves..

Well my Strategy here would be: Take the inpact hits and kill them after