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Dark Magic Sorceress in Black Guard unit 
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Beastmaster
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Has anyone tried this? Power of Darkness, Soulstealer and a 4++ ward might be a workable combo? Obviously Word of Pain too if possible. Oh and the +1 LD banner. Maybe a unit of 24? Not too big though obv. Soul Stealer will be your go-to spell I suppose, as she'll be drawing a lot of fire which is actually pretty cool when you think about it. If she has the wounds to take it, that is! The template scattering D6" when placed is not, however, very good at all...

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:50 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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If you do a unit of 24, I might recommend 3 rows of 8. That way in a wide unit, with her in a corner, she can avoid a lot of melee.

That is a LOT of points in one unit though.

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:40 am
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PhD in Dark Magic
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I've done exactly this before, with a unit of 20 Black Guard and with both level 2 and level 4 Sorceresses, fielded in 7 x 3 formation. With a level 2, the Sorceress is disposable.

A unit with Strength 5, 2 Attacks each, and re-rolls to hit in every round is a vicious prospect for most opponents. A level 4 can also use Word of Pain to reduce incoming damage, if the unit has to go up against a horde or heavy cavalry. I wouldn't bother with the +1 LD banner. I think that it'd really only be useful to reduce the risk of Spirit Leech, since the unit is Immune to Psychology and Stubborn.

In my view, Soul Stealer really isn't that reliable a spell unless you're fighting large units of T3 models. If you're concerned to protect your level 4 against enemy attacks and Power of Darkness damage, I would recommend taking a 4+ ward (possibly the Black Amulet so she can issue challenges and reduce incoming attacks) and using the Lichebone Pennant on the Black Guard (which gives a 3+ ward against POD wounds). The other alternative to protect the level 4 would be a support caster using Beasts, Shadow or Heavens magic for the signature spells.

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:54 pm
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It is a bit of a points sink, but I play a lot of buses so end up putting all my eggs in one basket quite often and only in a couple of scenarios has it bitten me. The only thing I'd say is that it may end up being a little difficult to avoid her getting into combat, however with the ward and soulstealer you can negate that to an extent. Might be an idea to put one or two more characters in there, like a BSB or combat master so they can maybe give the unit magic res or something to make it a little more durable. However in that situation you are making it more of a point sink :P


Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:52 pm
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Little off topic, but I've always wanted to run a lv1 Sorceress on a horse or Cold One with some Fast Cav or Knights, and just roll around chucking two dice at PoD. Not all that expensive for +1 S.

It's probably terribly ineffective, but has so much potential to be awesome.


Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:08 pm
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Clockwork wrote:
Little off topic, but I've always wanted to run a lv1 Sorceress on a horse or Cold One with some Fast Cav or Knights, and just roll around chucking two dice at PoD. Not all that expensive for +1 S.

It's probably terribly ineffective, but has so much potential to be awesome.


No, it's actually pretty good. Give her the Tome of Furion (to guarantee Word of Pain) and an Opal Amulet, put her in a unit of Knights, and enjoy the S7 charging/S5 grinding and mount attacks.

The last time I did that, my Knights knocked over a Treeman in one round. No, I didn't shout "Timberrrrrrr!" as the battle was going rather poorly for my opponent.

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Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:11 am
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Highborn

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Surely it's better (cheaper) just to roll her as a level 1 with Power of Darkness?

That way when she gets killed out of the unit I guess it's not losing too many points.


Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:32 am
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Clockwork wrote:
Surely it's better (cheaper) just to roll her as a level 1 with Power of Darkness?

That way when she gets killed out of the unit I guess it's not losing too many points.


I'd say its two different options.

- Cheap and cheerful Dark or Beasts for the boosts.

- Lv2 Tome of Furion for PoD + guaranteeing your choice of Shroud, Black Horror or Word of Pain :)

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Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:04 pm
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has anybody else noticed how frankly dangerous the spell black horror is? if the artillery dice rolls a misfire then you're buggered. and if she's in the black guard unit as in my latest and greatest idea, then they may well be taking something of a kicking due to their being strength three only. better cast PoD first!!

i wouldn't be taking the sac dagger in a unit of black guard obviously, probably just a standard dispel scroll.


Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:37 pm
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All in all Placing a sorceress in a unit that is to go in to combat is just plain wrong. You never ever want you sorceress to be in contact with any units for prolonged combat. While the BG are one of our best units at prolong combat.

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Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:02 am
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just watch me prove you wrong! A-HA!


Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:04 pm
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Killerk wrote:
All in all Placing a sorceress in a unit that is to go in to combat is just plain wrong. You never ever want you sorceress to be in contact with any units for prolonged combat. While the BG are one of our best units at prolong combat.


Are they, though? Low model count + low AS. Surely you'd want the Blackguard to go in, smash face, and GTFO - hence the logic that a Sorceress with PoD, boosting them up to S5, might not be a terrible idea. All that's in their favour is the Stubborn.


Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:23 pm
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wroot - You can try, but your opponents will quickly learn she is an easy target. Even a 4+ ward, statistically gives you 1,5 Wounds, so lets round that up to 2. Now imagine how difficult it is to kill 5 t3 wood elf archers in CC.
Good luck.

Clockwork- s5 wont help their surviveability, its a common mistake most people make, like the assumption is that if your a good shot you'll become a veteran solider. Nothing more foolish. It just means you'll most likely hit something if you get the chance to shoot, but it doesn't really reduce your chances of getting shot. The ability to take cover and mask your self = you least likely to get shot, = you can survive longer and become a veteran.

So if you want to grind out you opponent you must reduce his ability to hit you. Increasing you strength will not do that for you, sure you'll kill your opponent faster, but will you take him out before he gets to strike back.... well the chances a very very low. This is done by light+heavens magic or shadow magic. Light and Heavens have redundancy, shadow not really well.

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Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:57 am
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I'd have to fully agree with Killer here. Wizards in general (except for chaos and OK) don't really belong in fighting units. There are a few set-ups that I might use if I wanted to have my sorceress in a slow moving infantry unit like blackguard. Shadow magic and a nasty dreadlord in another unit so that you can smoke and miror in and out would be decent. Or dark/life magic with black amulet to challenge his killy stuff and heal yourself in your magic phases. Or you can run a BWS and organize the ranks so that the wizard ends up in the 2nd rank.

But really, the only wizard in the DE world that I would consider even mildly "fighty" is Morathi.


Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:25 pm
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marcopollo wrote:
But really, the only wizard in the DE world that I would consider even mildly "fighty" is Morathi.


...and Malekith?

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Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:48 pm
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shadow magic level 1 nearby is a baller idea. smoke n mirrors if it gets too hectic in the heat of combat.

just watch wrooty-tooty prove you all wrong. hah!


Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:54 pm
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wroot wrote:
shadow magic level 1 nearby is a baller idea. smoke n mirrors if it gets too hectic in the heat of combat.

just watch wrooty-tooty prove you all wrong. hah!


FWIW, I've mentioned before that I didn't think this was a bad idea.

As much as KillerK makes a good point about enemies trying to take points off you by killing your level 4 and that Power of Darkness won't really help keep her alive, there's a half-decent hex spell in the Lore of Dark Magic that is incredibly good at reducing incoming damage. Sure, it's going to be a high priority for dispelling, but that's where multiple redundancies come into it. If you're using vanilla Dark Elves, you can use Warlocks for guaranteed access to Soulblight. With a Host of the Aestyrion or the Eternity King, you can use a Loremaster and have access to Wyssan's Wildform, Iceshard Blizzard and Melkoth's Miasma as well (even if you've agreed not to use the End Times magic rules), although you couldn't use Black Guard with the Aestyrion.

That said, actually getting to use Smoke & Mirrors isn't a bad idea. In an Eternity King list, you could also have a Shadowdancer using Miasma and swapping places with the Sorceress (with a 3+ ward save, no less). The same trick could be pulled with a Loremaster, who could then buff the unit with Earth Blood for extra resilience.

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Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:02 pm
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Just make sure that you can survive one round of combat. You won't get to use smoke and mirors when its your oponents magic phase.


Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:44 am
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When not having to juggle my army for comp I have taken blackguard with a lvl4 metal or dark before, I have also placed a CoB I. Their to with the deathhag bsb having obsidian blade and rune of Khaine now it's an expensive unit (1000+ points) but it can be quite fun and the dark magic I think complements Druchii wonderfully.

I tend to start the battle with the unit in a brick i.e only only command in the front rank plus the 3 spaces taken by the cob, so you have 7 ranks with 26 BG, my lvl 4 has ring of hotek not a 4++ and sits in the second rank (next to cob on the 2 side so can't be flanked charged. This also allows my flankers to be within the cob and hotek 6inch bubble. As the battle progresses I will offen reform after first round of combat or before into a wider formation especially if I use soul stealer and get some wounds on her (it's not always rolled or useful) or If I have a good % of getting the charge so can position Her out of combat.

The bg real strength in this is their two attacks and asf (3 if you get the frenzy off) so you can be flank charged or rear charged and still put out a world of hurt,it's vunerable to shooting (particularly canons) and super 6 spells but I've only lost the unit once to combat and twice to bad luck (fail rerollable 10 break tests) I've used the combo maybe 20 times or so. I especially like skullcrushers and Demi's charging my front then Soscha (the death hag) cleaving one or two dead herself before the guard step up and chop up the rest.

Dark magic is a jack of all trades lore imo and great for all comers lists because you have a good range of spells to respond to varied opponents and a big unit like this is a great battle platform, but it will like all things in WHFB go down occasionally but when the dice go your way the carnage can be fantastic.

I like it at least though it's not everyone's cup of tea :-)


Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:34 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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I really like this idea, because it fits to the thinking behind the Dark Magic - an offensive Wizard that is not affraid to get close to the enemy. Nearly all the spells in the lore are written to fit that type of magican. And I really like a sorceress in the Black Guard. The +1 Strength makes them worth the points! Maybe giving the sorceress Fencer's Blade and a 4+ Ward (or Black Dragon Egg?) would help.
The only problem is, that Soulstealer might not give her enough wounds in time... I tried that spell a few times mainly vs skaven and they are as weak as we are but far more in numbers, so the scattering doesn't matter as much - but even there it gave the sorceress only like two or three wounds in one game... and always having your mind on that and at some point Soulstealer being the most important spell you want to get through is just meh.


Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:41 pm
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BG have inherent weakness.
1. they drop like flies, it takes a breeze and they fall over.
2. they are slow, because they are infantry
3. They are expensive, and death staring them up makes them even more expensive.

So yes when a 1000 point unit comes in to contact with a 300 point unit it should win. But it takes away from the rest of your army. And a smart opponent will use that to his advantage, and will turn your great unit in to a point sink handy cap.

As to Dark magic, it has no redundancy. So if your opponent is half smart, he will stop word of pain when in crucial CC, and when not in CC, he will dispel doom bolt. The other spells are to situational.

And if your facing a poor opponent... then anything will crush him.

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Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:54 pm
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i reckon it'll be ok though if i bring a unit of warlocks as they can attempt to cast soulblight instead, if the opponent has spent most dice trying to stop WoP.


Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:03 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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The big version of soulblight is the game winner in most games for me anyway. Shall my opponent waste his dice on my dark magic spells... ^^
Seriously, of course Black Guard isn't very competative when you play maxed out. But I still like to field them and finding a way to make them a little better is always nice. Plus they really show their strength against mass armies like skaven (IF they get to close combat) and against armies who force you to make ld tests like VC. Stubborn + immune to psych is just such a good combination ...


Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:11 am
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Languste - I'm sorry but you obviously haven't seen game winning spells.
And when facing better death stars ITP suddenly becomes game looser.

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Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:21 am
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Killerk - depends on what you call game winning spells. sure a purple sun might take out a big death star of ogres and therefore wins you the game - if it all works out and you have to get your lvl4 in position at the right moment. you most certainly need to get a miscast or otherwise get a scroll and damage spells tend to have a possibility to either be not strong enough (roll 2D6 - "Oh! A 1 and a 3"...)or go wrong (place template on top of sorcerer...).
Soulblight on the other hand almost can't fail you! You just make to be sure not to be dispelled. Round 3 or 4 - your most important units are engaged in combat, the game is decided here. Your unit of 5 Doomfire Warlocks marched to somewhere in the center. Then you throw 6 dice at Soulblight and everything enemy within 24" becomes weak and soft. This just is so made for elves as the two things we lack - strength and toughness are complemented by this so well.
And what's the price you pay for this? Miscast! Your opponent: "Haha!" Okay let's see, miscast on Warlocks roll a d3 for wounds no armoursaves of 6+ allowed therefore my 4++ ward is allowed. i take 2 wounds, save one. That's not even a panic test I would most likely pass. Alright let's go to shooting with my bolt throwers at your toughness 4 and 5 monsters and after that some combat please.

A bit off topic I confess ;-)


Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:37 am
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