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Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online
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Author:  Cerebros [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

HI folks,

Following my overview of the High Elf book last year I'm glad to (finally) announce the release of the follow-up. Rather than being a full on review of the High Elf book or any of the Elf books released since, I've done something a little different instead. Comparing units across the three armies I've created my own fantasy Elf army list by picking units I feel fulfill their roles the best.

This is the first of three parts, with part two being released in a fortnight and the final part two weeks after that.

You can find the article here but feel free to comment or discuss the options you'd pick for your "fantasy" Elf list here.

Author:  T.D. [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves?

Nice one Cerebros,

Feel free to post an extended section of your article, followed by a link i.e.:

Quote:
As I'm a bit late to the party in terms of looking at the Dark Elf and Wood Elf books this article is going to be a bit different to the usual army book overview or review you'll read or hear. Rather than go through the three elf army books in turn, instead I'm going to look at them as a set and pick units from them to make my own fantasy elf army book.

Just in case you're wondering, this article wasn't inspired by the imminent possibility of an End Times edition allowing you to use all the elven races in one army. I've been working on this article off and on since a month or so after the release of the Wood Elf book but the prospect of an Elven themed End Times book has inspired me to get this finished before such a book arrives. I also haven't reconsidered my character choices in light of the maximum 50% Lords and maximum 50% Heroes limitations that have been introduced with version 1.9 of the main Warhammer rulebook FAQ/Errata.

To be clear, although I may also refer to this as my "list" instead of "book" during this article, I don't mean list in the sense of the army list you write when playing your games but the list of units in my fantasy elf book. This isn't going to be my pick of units to go into a tournament list (not least because, as my tournament opponents can probably tell you, I have no idea of what constitutes a viable tournament unit) but my list of units you would construct your list for casual or tournament games from.

As with my High Elf overview, I'm not going to cover special characters as I don't use them and rarely play against people who do.


Continue reading: http://wargames.cerebros.net/articles.php?article_title=elves-elves-elves---part-1


As you will get more engagement for your post and article.

I personally dig the choice of a Dreadlord :twisted: and I'm very intrigued with what synergies you are going to create with the Dryad :o

Looking forward to part 2...

Author:  Amboadine [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves?

Nice article so far. Thanks for sharing.

Author:  Cerebros [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Part 2 now online

Hi everyone.

Part two of the article is now online, covering Core units plus infantry in the Special and Rare sections.

You can find the article here.

Author:  Cerebros [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves?

T.D. wrote:
Nice one Cerebros,

Feel free to post an extended section of your article, followed by a link i.e.:

...

As you will get more engagement for your post and article.

I personally dig the choice of a Dreadlord :twisted: and I'm very intrigued with what synergies you are going to create with the Dryad :o

Looking forward to part 2...


Thanks for the tip. It would have made sense to do that although I must admit I was in a bit of a hurry to get a link posted up after having spent so long writing and editing the thing and needing to get onto finishing off the painting for the tournament I was at this weekend just gone (battle report coming soon...)

Author:  Amboadine [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Part 2 now online

Good part two. Nice work.

Author:  Akholrak [ Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Part 2 now online

A good read. Thanks for taking the time to right this. :)

Author:  Cerebros [ Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Part 2 now online

Thanks. (And boy did it take me some time to write...)

Author:  flatworldsedge [ Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Part 2 now online

Thanks Cerebros - really useful reading with the new units available to us, which I don't know so well. Just noticed you bio too; didn't realise you'd been behind Moyes' tactics last season. You deserve further thanks for that; a fantastic service to football that continues to amuse today!

Author:  Cerebros [ Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Part 2 now online

flatworldsedge wrote:
Thanks Cerebros - really useful reading with the new units available to us, which I don't know so well. Just noticed you bio too; didn't realise you'd been behind Moyes' tactics last season. You deserve further thanks for that; a fantastic service to football that continues to amuse today!


Well I had to update the bio as I was referencing Avram Grant before (and that was what, 100 Chelsea managers ago? :mrgreen: )

Author:  Cerebros [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

The final part of the article is now online, looking at cavalry, chariots, war machines, monsters and chaff.

You can find third part here

Author:  Amboadine [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Cerebros wrote:
The final part of the article is now online, looking at cavalry, chariots, war machines, monsters and chaff.

You can find third part here



Excellent. Bookmarked and looking forward to reading.

Author:  Akholrak [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Another excellent read. A job well done. :)

Author:  flatworldsedge [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Thanks again - have enjoyed reading these. As noted previously they're especially useful in light of the merge (though I'll be damned if I use any H*gh Elf units... well maybe just Phoenix Guard with Alarielle, but I'll model them as Beastmen with a Death Hag).

Author:  Teowulff [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Great article, thanks a lot!! :P

Any chance you're going to add characters to the review?

Author:  Cerebros [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Teowulff wrote:
Great article, thanks a lot!! :P

Any chance you're going to add characters to the review?


I take it you mean Special Characters? As a general rule I don't play with them (only time I've played one for years that I can recall was when I used the Eternity King this Monday) and don't really play with people who do (probably because we all started playing back when you needed your opponent's permission to use them) so I've not really considered them.

I might consider covering them if I do an article on the Khaine End Times book.

Author:  Teowulff [ Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Cerebros wrote:
I take it you mean Special Characters? As a general rule I don't play with them (only time I've played one for years that I can recall was when I used the Eternity King this Monday) and don't really play with people who do (probably because we all started playing back when you needed your opponent's permission to use them) so I've not really considered them.

Yes it's a bit sad that all those options are not available in a lot of games. Practically/pragmatically, they'd better might turn the special characters into special items that allow you to make said character so you can still include them.

Anyway, after reading your articles a few times there's only two things I don't really agree with:
a. Silver Helms. Yes it's nice to have heavy cavalry in core - but I don't really see the added value with so much better units to choose from in ET (although they're used a lot in HE lists for reasons you mentioned). After the initial charge they're only a disappointing 2 attack S3 T3, not really a lot better better than spearmen. With shields they're 23 pts - compared to 3A DP (29 pts) and (especially with S4 T4) COK (30 pts) you don't really get a lot of value for your points.
b. Your division into great weapon and other special infantry. Personally I'd primarily compare units for their total strength, not their core S and add weapons later. I'd compare Black Guard with Swordmasters (both 2A S5) and ask myself if the BG's extras are worth the extra 2 points they cost. The PG, even though they seem to be another heavy infantry unit with halberds, are a totally different kind of unit imo, more a very tough mage bunker and quite unique.

But for the rest: a great article! I learned a lot from it, thanks!! :P

Author:  Akholrak [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Teowulff wrote:
Cerebros wrote:
I take it you mean Special Characters? As a general rule I don't play with them (only time I've played one for years that I can recall was when I used the Eternity King this Monday) and don't really play with people who do (probably because we all started playing back when you needed your opponent's permission to use them) so I've not really considered them.

Yes it's a bit sad that all those options are not available in a lot of games. Practically/pragmatically, they'd better might turn the special characters into special items that allow you to make said character so you can still include them.

Anyway, after reading your articles a few times there's only two things I don't really agree with:
a. Silver Helms. Yes it's nice to have heavy cavalry in core - but I don't really see the added value with so much better units to choose from in ET (although they're used a lot in HE lists for reasons you mentioned). After the initial charge they're only a disappointing 2 attack S3 T3, not really a lot better better than spearmen. With shields they're 23 pts - compared to 3A DP (29 pts) and (especially with S4 T4) COK (30 pts) you don't really get a lot of value for your points.
b. Your division into great weapon and other special infantry. Personally I'd primarily compare units for their total strength, not their core S and add weapons later. I'd compare Black Guard with Swordmasters (both 2A S5) and ask myself if the BG's extras are worth the extra 2 points they cost. The PG, even though they seem to be another heavy infantry unit with halberds, are a totally different kind of unit imo, more a very tough mage bunker and quite unique.

But for the rest: a great article! I learned a lot from it, thanks!! :P


Silver Helms still are the only Core heavy cavalry even in End Times, and some units we now have access to still won't get much playtime. They do hit like Spearmen after the charge, which is why you intend to break your opponent on the charge. They are also M9 and 2+ save, much more survivable than Spearmen.

Cold One Knights are T3 - you still use the Rider's Toughness.

Black Guard are only S4 (S3 plus Halberd). Black Guard also play differently to Swordmasters, and to Phoenix Guard and probably shouldn't be compare to one another as they do perform different roles in an army. However, units such as White Lions compare very similarly to Executioners with a few fundamental differences as described in the article.

Author:  Teowulff [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Akholrak wrote:
Silver Helms still are the only Core heavy cavalry even in End Times, and some units we now have access to still won't get much playtime. They do hit like Spearmen after the charge, which is why you intend to break your opponent on the charge. They are also M9 and 2+ save, much more survivable than Spearmen.

Cold One Knights are T3 - you still use the Rider's Toughness.

Black Guard are only S4 (S3 plus Halberd). Black Guard also play differently to Swordmasters, and to Phoenix Guard and probably shouldn't be compare to one another as they do perform different roles in an army. However, units such as White Lions compare very similarly to Executioners with a few fundamental differences as described in the article.

I stand corrected!
Still I don't see why you would prefer BG over SM and PG. Generally PG is regarded as one of the best units on the game - while BG and SM are considered ok but nowhere outstanding.

Author:  Cerebros [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves. Elves! Elves? - Final Part now online

Hi

apologies for the delay in responding, unfortunately been a bit busy (and then had to sort out a dead laptop)

Teowulff wrote:
Anyway, after reading your articles a few times there's only two things I don't really agree with:
a. Silver Helms. Yes it's nice to have heavy cavalry in core - but I don't really see the added value with so much better units to choose from in ET (although they're used a lot in HE lists for reasons you mentioned). After the initial charge they're only a disappointing 2 attack S3 T3, not really a lot better better than spearmen. With shields they're 23 pts - compared to 3A DP (29 pts) and (especially with S4 T4) COK (30 pts) you don't really get a lot of value for your points.


Well you do have to bear in mind that the article was written mostly before I'd seen any rumours of what would be in what turned out to be the Khaine book but in any case, as Akholrak said, even with the three different elven hosts you can take, Silver Helms are still the only core heavy cavalry you can take.


Teowulff wrote:
b. Your division into great weapon and other special infantry. Personally I'd primarily compare units for their total strength, not their core S and add weapons later. I'd compare Black Guard with Swordmasters (both 2A S5) and ask myself if the BG's extras are worth the extra 2 points they cost. The PG, even though they seem to be another heavy infantry unit with halberds, are a totally different kind of unit imo, more a very tough mage bunker and quite unique.


Well as I say in the article, the aim was to try and compare units I felt had similar roles (although as I also said, Phoenix Guard and Black Guard ended up as part of an awkward squad without any other units to be easily compared to). That's not to say that there isn't any potential for role cross-over but it took me literally months to write the article as it was - if I were to increase the number of different comparisons I'd probably still be writing it...

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